Tekton M-Lore Speaker Review

[aschen]

The company owner keeps repeating the same nonsense, and the response of outrage keeps increasing. Any chance this is strategic to build up a case of provable damage to the company reputation? Or am I giving way to much seemingly undeserved credit for complex thought?



Supersonic flow, nice! Are these converging-Diverging 1/4-20s to accelerate past mach1?

 

[olieb]

If you take a very close look at the on-axis frequency response of Amir's published NFS measurements, you can notice a very small increase in the frequency response in the range of 20-30Hz. This would correspond quite well to the expected effect of the four screw holes.

This is a bit of pixel peeping but I tend to agree. You could simulate the situation as a leaky ported box (which it is). This would show the much smaller effect compared to a leaky sealed box. Below the port frequency the box will approach an open system so the four holes are not that significant. (Exactly what the plots show.)
Aside of course of the supersonic effects

 

[Inertiaman]

Box losses [4 leaking holes] are easy to predict and measure. Furthermore, once we get into the 5-10 watt range the air pressure jets in and out of them at speeds above Mach1 and they get audible. Hard to fathom a top-notch reviewer not discerning audible jet sounds coupled with Nora Jones and Diana Krall!

Hard to fathom any speaker designer incorporating such holes into their cabinet construction. But you did.

 

[p.trianon]

All this fuss over one of Tektons cheapest models and a two way at that. While not condoning or agreeing with anyone's behavior I do think this is all a bit much. All these threads are starting to feel like a pile on. People here seem more upset over this than I was when I was actually sued by a patient once (they lost BTW) .

I have a few Tekton models and another pair I purchased for a friend. They are to my ears very nice speakers. I have the older version Dynamite with 4 tweeters, an Electron SE with central Be tweeter and I purchased for my friend a perfect set 2-10. Everyone who as listened to them has said complementary things. I also own KEF meta speakers, Paradigm Persona and used to own ML electrostats. Of them all the Electrons are my favorite. I don't measure speakers or have any expertise on speaker design for what its worth - and I dont at all doubt those who have taken measurements of some Tekton models. I hope the manufacturer does indeed post measurements as he has promised and a productive dialogue can continue.

 

[kemmler3D]

Any chance this is strategic to build up a case of provable damage to the company reputation?

If it came down to it, it would be easy to demonstrate that any loss in sales was because of Eric threatening Erin and Amir, not because of the measurements of the speaker. There are dozens of comments all over the place saying exactly that.


It would also be easy (not fast or cheap) to prove in court - in discovery, get sales records for all of Tekton's models. You will see a drop in sales for everything, not just the reviewed speakers.

So if that's his plan, well... not exactly 4D chess.

He also pulls his speakers off the website any time they get a bad review, so maybe he does think self-inflicted losses can be made into someone else's problem... but that still just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Axo1989]

Whoa! So you started this?

@CleanSound did bump the thread back in Feb when it had been resting for a couple of months. Tekton moticed/posted 11 days later. So I'll give him some credit (or blame, depending how you see things).

From the youtube transcript:

"I'm not suing anybody okay, and with two reviewers that I was having problems with I used the word litigation.

So let me share my perspective on litigation, and I'm not talking about ending up in a courtroom.

Litigation in my mind was at the time and still is today that my lawyer calls your lawyer they sit down for 20 minutes and inspect the facts andthen we get something accomplished that is good for me, for them, and more importantly for the consumer, so I hope I've made my point clear."

Meanwhile, in the dictionary:

View attachment 362857
"Don't be mad at me, I don't know the definitions of words I use to threaten people!"

Let's see how that pans out.

He's using the archaic meaning. I've heard people use it that way eg "I want to litigate that point" etc. Dipping into his videos, his command of English words is such that I don't have trouble believing him there. I've previously posted that it's been obvious all along that there was no litigation (threatened or actual) in the legal sense of the word. Just a lot of imprecise communication. Personally I find that style of communication almost excruciating.

 

[amirm]

He's using the archaic meaning. I've heard people use it that way eg "I want to litigate that point" etc.

What about home saying he wants to collect damages from me? You think that fits with your explanation or his?

 

[kemmler3D]

Hard to fathom any speaker designer incorporating such holes into their cabinet construction. But you did.

Hard to fathom a speaker designer believing his cabinet will produce a sonic boom (?) and not mentioning it to reviewers until after they do the review.

I'm actually not sure - if airflow was actually supersonic in a small tube, what WOULD it sound like? If you had oscillating supersonic motion, wouldn't it make an absolutely tremendous roaring noise?

 

[kemmler3D]

He's using the archaic meaning. I've heard people use it that way eg "I want to litigate that point" etc

To Amir's point, you can't get damages without suing somebody. So... his command of English may not be excellent but this is still very hard to believe. The archaic or informal definitions also don't tend to involve lawyers in any way.

 

[Axo1989]

What about home saying he wants to collect damages from me? You think that fits with your explanation or his?

I don't see any reason why you would believe him.

To Amir's point, you can't get damages without suing somebody. So... his command of English may not be excellent but this is still very hard to believe. The archaic or informal definitions also doesn't tend to involve lawyers in any way.

You may both be correct. But my estimation/perception of his language skills is so low that I don't (and suggest you shouldn't) assign effective meaning to any of his utterances.

 

[IAtaman]

To Amir's point, you can't get damages without suing somebody. So... his command of English may not be excellent but this is still very hard to believe. The archaic or informal definitions also don't tend to involve lawyers in any way.

It can not be very archaic given that he wanted to litigate that point with his lawyer.

 

[NTK]

Box losses [4 leaking holes] are easy to predict and measure. Furthermore, once we get into the 5-10 watt range the air pressure jets in and out of them at speeds above Mach1 and they get audible. Hard to fathom a top-notch reviewer not discerning audible jet sounds coupled with Nora Jones and Diana Krall!

You seem to have forgotten that big bass reflex port hole in you've designed into your speaker. Since the little holes for the feet have higher flow restriction than the reflex port, the air flow velocity in the port will have to be higher than the velocity through the little holes.

Therefore, should we be expecting hypersonic shock waves coming out the reflex port?

 

[ctrl]

Imo turbulent flow through the screw holes could be audible. They are small enough that I'm guessing something more like "whistling" instead of the more familiar "chuffing". This would of course be level-dependent.

(Edited to add: The airspeed through the ports would not reach Mach 1. Turbulence would be the dominant mechanism at very high port pressures, so simulation software's predictions of very airspeeds is inaccurate.)

I believe Eric has repeatedly stated in the forum and in videos that the screw holes reach airspeed Mach 1, leading to significant audible sound impairments.

As you mentioned, turbulence reduces airspeed, and what Eric doesn't mention is that you would need to operate the speaker with SPL >95dB to theoretically achieve such airspeed in the screw holes (without considering turbulence).

Furthermore, the resonance frequency of the screw holes is likely around 25Hz. Therefore, with normal music material, the resonance is almost never excited, and thus, no whistling or similar phenomena can be observed.

Additionally, 25Hz is well below the BR tuning frequency of around 50Hz. Therefore, at SPL >95dB and a 25Hz music signal, there is the risk that the voice coil hits the back plate of the motor (if the woofer cone is not extremely rigidly suspended).

One would need to experiment with sine tones between 15-30Hz to see if any whistling through the screw holes can be detected since normal music signal will not excite the screw hole resonance.

 

[KSTR]

Chuffing noise from secondary air leak paths is highest at the main port resonance, as far as I can see and remember from own experiences.

 

[PierreV]

The next generation Tekton M-Lore Meta has been leaked!

 

[tomtoo]

Box losses [4 leaking holes] are easy to predict and measure. Furthermore, once we get into the 5-10 watt range the air pressure jets in and out of them at speeds above Mach1 and they get audible. Hard to fathom a top-notch reviewer not discerning audible jet sounds coupled with Nora Jones and Diana Krall!

No need to predict.Erin measures and we will see.

 

[Axo1989]

It can not be very archaic given that he wanted to litigate that point with his lawyer.

As someone noted upthread, in that instance he meant arbitrate (to the extent any desire/intention was coherent).

 

[Salt]

The discussion is running into a 'split brain' situation, as comments are posted here and here .
Perhaps a focus on one would ease keeping up with news?

 

[Sokel]

Are people acting like a mob? I can't really argue with that. Yes, it is a bit ugly, but I've seen worse around the internet more than once.

Because we want to prove loyalty to individual people? I don't really agree with that.

What EA is doing is attacking the foundation of what we find valuable about ASR or EAC. If threats like EA's are successful, reviewers can't publish anything manufacturers don't want them to publish - i.e. anything other than praise, about any product.

If reviewers can't publish honest reviews and measurements, all of the value of ASR and sites like it goes away. We would go into another dark age of audio where there's little-to-no reliable information about audio gear.

At least, that is a way to look at it. Amir and Erin represent (in a sense) a free press and something beyond that, consistent, principled, data-driven reviewing. Attacking that seems very immoral to most people in this community, and the response is commensurate to that feeling.



I agree - but I think this drama is ultimately about whether people have the right to publish and consume said data. And there is a very strong belief that yes, we (reviewers and readers) do!

There's no easier fighting than with data and facts.
That's ASR's field,assuming,guessing,generalizing and emotionalizing gets us to the other camp,the one we suppose to come to sense.
And certainly the way is not to be worst than them,the worst places example should not apply here.

Whoever has the data ( =info) has the strength.
Whatever way we use this data shows our class and whether is for good or bad.

And whoever thinks that all this publicity will benefit the data side better wait for the AXPONA.
Polarizing never-ever benefited the data side,is like playing in their own field.

 

[Jim Taylor]

That's ASR's field. Assuming, guessing, generalizing and emotionalizing gets us to the other camp ...

Well said!

Jim