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NAD C 298 Power Amplifier With Purifi Eigentakt Amplification

PuX

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was it ever explained why C298 can send only 340 watts into 4 ohms?
did they make a special power supply and it's slightly underpowered? because the amp modules should be able to provide 400 watts as far as I understand.

M23 spec says 380 watts, so if it has the same amp modules inside, it has to be the power supply, right?
 

JoetheLion

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was it ever explained why C298 can send only 340 watts into 4 ohms?
did they make a special power supply and it's slightly underpowered? because the amp modules should be able to provide 400 watts as far as I understand.

M23 spec says 380 watts, so if it has the same amp modules inside, it has to be the power supply, right?

I think that will be the reason. NAD support told me:

"Basically, the M 33 and C 298 are similar because they use the same power amp modules. Only the power supplies differ "a little" in a direct comparison of the power amp sections."

And hifiklubben website says: "The NAD M23 is essentially the power section of the M33 in its own cabinet."
 

mSpot

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There is a new amplifier:

https://www.hifiklubben.de/nad-m23-endstufe/nadm23si/

Does anyone know the difference with the C298? The specs seem to be very similar.
I noticed it has 3 fixed gain settings (low/med/high) rather than variable like the C298.

nadm23si_o_2.jpg
 

NYfan2

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I just saw that the price of the C298 has increased to € 2099,- , the M23 is € 3499,- overhere in the Netherlands.
€ 1400,- extra for a more high end case is a lot of money IMO.
 

nothingman

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Agree. At first glance they have missed the mark. For this price it needs to the world’s undisputed best implementation of Eigentakt, and even then, not sure the fancy case makes up the rest of the difference to the C298 or the competition. Seems like this is for people who feel they absolutely need a stack of Masters gear in matching outfits.
 
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pogo

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This might be the best sounding implementation of Eigentakt at the moment:
Link

As a special feature, the amp can be matched to taste and speakers via the damping factor.
 

ebslo

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I just saw that the price of the C298 has increased to € 2099,- , the M23 is € 3499,- overhere in the Netherlands.
€ 1400,- extra for a more high end case is a lot of money IMO.
Agreed. This just makes the M28 seem like an even better deal at less than half the price per channel.
 

pogo

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But the M28 cannot be bridged.
 

Kal Rubinson

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But the M28 cannot be bridged.
So they say. I suspect that it is possible but that not any two randomly-chosen channels will work.
 

pogo

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Could be like this:)
 

ihvar

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Hi, guys! I have external DAC/preamp RME ADI-2 DAC FS connected to Cambridge Audio CXR-200 by analog RCA (only stereo), and my speakers are Heco Celan Revolution 3. Would it be a good upgrade from Cambridge Audio CXR-200 to NAD C 298?
 

MaxBuck

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Hi, guys! I have external DAC/preamp RME ADI-2 DAC FS connected to Cambridge Audio CXR-200 by analog RCA (only stereo), and my speakers are Heco Celan Revolution 3. Would it be a good upgrade from Cambridge Audio CXR-200 to NAD C 298?
I really love my C298, but I doubt that ABX with your current amp would reveal much difference. But the opportunity to use XLR connections could have an audible impact, I suppose.

I'd probably be looking first at upgrading the speakers.
 

ihvar

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I really love my C298, but I doubt that ABX with your current amp would reveal much difference. But the opportunity to use XLR connections could have an audible impact, I suppose.

I'd probably be looking first at upgrading the speakers.

That's sad, cause I bought these speakers only 2 months ago. And after your message I'm ready to hear from them - "You want upgrade? I AM THE UPGRADE! " :)

What about damping factor? I heard that for CXR200 it's about 100. And C298's damping factor is more than 800-2000.

But... My speakers now are bi-amped by CXR200, maybe C298 would be even a downgrade...
 

Kal Rubinson

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That's sad, cause I bought these speakers only 2 months ago. And after your message I'm ready to hear from them - "You want upgrade? I AM THE UPGRADE! " :)
Generally, you get bigger returns on investment in acoustics and speakers than in electronics (given that the latter are modern and competent).
 

peng

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What about damping factor? I heard that for CXR200 it's about 100. And C298's damping factor is more than 800-2000.

Some audiophiles would keep trying to find reasons for why they heard a difference between their compared devices even when all available bench test results indicate there should be none audible/detectable to human. So they would pick and choice from things like crossover distortions, slew rate, damping factor and anything else that may not look the best relative to the best measured devices. Scientific facts seem to indicate that while DF could be an important factor, it should not be hard for an amp to have DF high enough to get pass the point of diminishing return.

Here's a good summary on the topic:


I got a chuckle when I saw the title of Dr. Toole's "Damping factor and damn nonsense". As usual, he rarely bother commenting on electronics as he knows full well modern electronics usually wouldn't be the elephant in the room, but the speakers.

People can perhaps debate if 20 is high enough in general, but I would say 100 is pretty good and safe for golden ears while 20 within the audio band would likely be close to the magic number.

Benchmark has a nice article on DF too, and their worked example would show (my own interpretation) that 150 should be high enough for golden ear class and >20 should be enough for most. That's about the effects on frequency response, for the actual speaker driver damping, even DF of 10 may be high enough.

 

ihvar

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Thank you for so detailed info! According to table linked to your article the inaudible error of < 0.1 dB for my 0.025 Ohm cable is reached when damping factor is more than 1000.
 

pogo

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What about damping factor? I heard that for CXR200 it's about 100. And C298's damping factor is more than 800-2000.
Here is an example of an amp that is switchable in similar values:
Link
 

ebslo

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Here is an example of an amp that is switchable in similar values:
Link
It's easier/cheaper to lower your damping factor with longer and/or higher gauge speaker wire. For example, 3m of 18 gauge wire puts an upper bound on the damping factor seen by the speaker of 63. And for some context on super high DF amps, the upper bound on damping factor seen by the speakers using 3m of 12 gauge wire is 256.
 

pogo

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What assumptions did you use for the speaker, among other things?
 
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