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Wilson Alexia V - 2023 Stereophile Speaker of the Year ???

ahofer

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I think a lot of casual listeners do get seduced easily by lots of bass response.
No doubt, and it does make a visceral impression when the speaker can pressurize the room. There's also showroom treble. But these things are, in fact, trivially measurable. Sound pressure at low frequency, high freq bump, etc.

I suppose I might take time to listen to some big Wilsons again if I could take in-room measurements and correlate my impressions to what's going on acoustically. But that would get old pretty fast, and I have a sense of it. I know not that I like wide, even dispersion, strict linearity through the midrange and (I think) lack of compression so that's what I look for.
 

Anton D

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Why is that? Don't you value your time? It's a finite resource for all of us. My time is worth a lot, and it isn't particularly 'self-congratulatory' to think so. Simultaneously there is a whole thread on "simplicity" as a virtue in systems, much of which revolves around how one wants to use their precious time on earth. It's a good thing to think about.

I've ducked in at a shop and listened to Wilsons out of curiousity (and found them a bit fatiguing), but I certainly wouldn't take a precious weekend day or evening specifically to go and listen. They measure inadequately for the price. Listening won't make them sound audibly better.

As I said, that's what measurements are for - to make sure your potential equipment purchase is suited to the task at hand.

I'm mystified that you find these practical notions to be some sort of snobbery. It's very strange.
I guess I just let curiosity and the joy of hanging with other people get the better of me. :p

Your fantasctial reply about 'ducking and' and 'listening fatigue' was humorous, I give you that! How long did the fatigue take to set in after you ducked in? Same kind of funny for the 'no need to listen if you don't like the measurements.'

I wish a joyous measuring season.

A good spirited tip: listening to things you 'know' are flawed can improve your ability to listen. If you are unable to take the time to make correlations between what you are told to compare to what you actually hear, your listening skills will never improve. With audio, it takes listening as well as being told what the measurements are...kinda like cooking, sex, or anything that involves your own sensory opinion formation. Sometimes graphs and numbers don't can't fully flesh out the experience, for good or ill.

This part was a little sad: "I certainly wouldn't take a precious weekend day or evening specifically to go and listen." I hope you can do that, sometime. It's pretty darned fun. Instead of the time I spent listening, what did you do?
 

Cbdb2

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As I read the review I thought there might be a glimmer or hope for stereophile, than I read this.

"Threes improved dramatically when I switched from Cardas's entry-level Iridium ($125 for a 1m pair) to their flagship Clear Beyond interconnects, which, at $4250 for a 1m length, cost a lot more than a pair of G Threes."

He just couldn't resist lying (Ill bet him a months wages he cant hear any difference) and pushing the snake oil.
 

Anton D

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Yeah? Not how I read it. But, I'd almost certainly choose the Genelecs.
This makes me wonder: If you look at the 'for sale' section here, it seems people want to part with Genelecs more often than any other brand. I like their line, but that rate of abandonment does make me wonder, sometimes. (I think Genelec and then KEF seem to be the top two, but that's just an impression. Sometimes, the ready availability of brands on the used marker can tell us something about the long term pleasure they may or may not bring to someone.)
 

fpitas

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As I read the review I thought there might be a glimmer or hope for stereophile, than I read this.

"Threes improved dramatically when I switched from Cardas's entry-level Iridium ($125 for a 1m pair) to their flagship Clear Beyond interconnects, which, at $4250 for a 1m length, cost a lot more than a pair of G Threes."

He just couldn't resist lying (Ill bet him a months wages he cant hear any difference) and pushing the snake oil.
Well, that's Herb, not JA. Herb has his own imagination going ;)
 
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KellenVancouver

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How is this possible given the measurements? Can’t wrap my brain around it :facepalm:

I know I'm going to get blowback (sort of a speaker pun there), but I don't put as much stock in speaker measurements as, for instance, amplifiers, dacs, preamps, etc. That's not to say speaker measurements aren't helpful, but the speaker is where final sound emanates to the human ear and that invariably involves an element of subjectivity. Some people will prefer a "better" sound from different speakers, regardless of measurements, even if done blindly without knowledge of brand, price, aesthetics, etc.
 

fpitas

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This makes me wonder: If you look at the 'for sale' section here, it seems people want to part with Genelecs more often than any other brand. I like their line, but that rate of abandonment does make me wonder, sometimes. (I think Genelec and then KEF seem to be the top two, but that's just an impression. Sometimes, the ready availability of brands on the used marker can tell us something about the long term pleasure they may or may not bring to someone.)
Well, ok. Maybe.
 

Cbdb2

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This makes me wonder: If you look at the 'for sale' section here, it seems people want to part with Genelecs more often than any other brand. I like their line, but that rate of abandonment does make me wonder, sometimes. (I think Genelec and then KEF seem to be the top two, but that's just an impression. Sometimes, the ready availability of brands on the used marker can tell us something about the long term pleasure they may or may not bring to someone.)
Lots of people don't want accurate. Do you pick your equipment by popularity?
 

Anton D

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I know I'm going to get blowback (sort of a speaker pun there), but I don't put as much stock in speaker measurements as, for instance, amplifiers, dacs, preamps, etc. That's not to say speaker measurements aren't helpful, but the speaker is where final sound emanates to the human ear and that invariably involves an element of subjectivity. Some people will prefer a "better" sound from different speakers, regardless of measurements, even if done blindly without knowledge of brand, price, aesthetics, etc.
I think that is the biggest 'final frontier.'

I march in step with my fellow measurement zombies when it comes to digital sources and how a Topping amp may have .1% better performance than an SMSL, but for speakers, I will often let my ears lead me where they may! Worst thing that can happen is that after a while, I decide I want to live with a different set of flaws!
 

Cbdb2

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I know I'm going to get blowback (sort of a speaker pun there), but I don't put as much stock in speaker measurements as, for instance, amplifiers, dacs, preamps, etc. That's not to say speaker measurements aren't helpful, but the speaker is where final sound emanates to the human ear and that invariably involves an element of subjectivity. Some people will prefer a "better" sound from different speakers, regardless of measurements, even if done blindly without knowledge of brand, price, aesthetics, etc.
Lots of people don't want accurate. Do you pick your equipment by popularity?
 

Purité Audio

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This makes me wonder: If you look at the 'for sale' section here, it seems people want to part with Genelecs more often than any other brand. I like their line, but that rate of abandonment does make me wonder, sometimes. (I think Genelec and then KEF seem to be the top two, but that's just an impression. Sometimes, the ready availability of brands on the used marker can tell us something about the long term pleasure they may or may not bring to someone.)
Depreciation on the high-end brands is so enormous people don’t tend to swap that frequently also they are large and heavy .
Keith
 

ahofer

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I guess I just let curiosity and the joy of hanging with other people get the better of me. :p

Your fantasctial reply about 'ducking and' and 'listening fatigue' was humorous, I give you that! How long did the fatigue take to set in after you ducked in? Same kind of funny for the 'no need to listen if you don't like the measurements.'

I wish a joyous measuring season.

A good spirited tip: listening to things you 'know' are flawed can improve your ability to listen. If you are unable to take the time to make correlations between what you are told to compare to what you actually hear, your listening skills will never improve. With audio, it takes listening as well as being told what the measurements are...kinda like cooking, sex, or anything that involves your own sensory opinion formation. Sometimes graphs and numbers don't can't fully flesh out the experience, for good or ill.

This part was a little sad: "I certainly wouldn't take a precious weekend day or evening specifically to go and listen." I hope you can do that, sometime. It's pretty darned fun. Instead of the time I spent listening, what did you do?
You are kind of all over the place with this. You seem to be suggesting I'm a misanthrope, or do boring things and feigning sympathy ('a little sad') with a little added sarcasm ("joyous measuring season"). I certainly don't agree that listening to flawed high end equipment "improves your listening skills", apart from perhaps learning to correlate a measurement to an unpleasant sound. I don't think that's anywhere near true.

The most annoying thing in audio is to find that you can't listen to your system for a long period of time due to harshness. This is usually brought on by distortion, a non-linear presentation, or 'showroom treble'. The Wilsons felt that way to me - impressive for the first 5 minutes, then annoying. But then again, when there is an audio salesman around, I'm often already feeling annoyed. That's why measurements are important - I need to know what I'll live with well and has the best chance of sounding good in my home. I find auditioning audio equipment kind of excruciating, because it isn't really like listening to music. When I've done it I've tried to kick the salesman out of the room and try to simulate listening the way I do at home.

I go to concerts 2-3 times a week, I listen to music at home and hang out with my wife of 36 years (who is a violist), I bike around the hills of Northwest CT, I make money for myself and my clients. These things are better than auditioning underachieving audio equipment, IMO.

It's so odd that people are so anxious to find a reason to reject the technologies that can make their searches more effective and their purchase more satisfying in the long term. I just don't get it. Measurements are an incredible triage tool.
 

Cbdb2

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I think that is the biggest 'final frontier.'

I march in step with my fellow measurement zombies when it comes to digital sources and how a Topping amp may have .1% better performance than an SMSL, but for speakers, I will often let my ears lead me where they may! Worst thing that can happen is that after a while, I decide I want to live with a different set of flaws!
When you let your ears decide is is at home or at the store? You know they will sound different and your pick in the store may not be your pick at home.
I would never buy a speaker with out listening to it (electronics I would), but I would also check the measurements.
 

Anton D

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Lots of people don't want accurate. Do you pick your equipment by popularity?
Yes. Something has to please 100% of my polling population.

I was talking about the 'for sale' section here...do you think lots of people here don't want accurate, so that's why they are unloading it? I'll let you take that up with them!

The number of people trying to get rid of gear can give one an indication of how well something pleases the group of people who bought the stuff. Especially as a measurement of pleasure over time.
 

Purité Audio

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The number of components for sale also depends upon the number of components that have been purchased.
Keith
 

Cbdb2

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Yes. Something has to please 100% of my polling population.

I was talking about the 'for sale' section here...do you think lots of people here don't want accurate, so that's why they are unloading it? I'll let you take that up with them!

The number of people trying to get rid of gear can give one an indication of how well something pleases the group of people who bought the stuff. Especially as a measurement of pleasure over time.
Not really. You sure there not upgrading to other Genelecs? Too many variables.
 

KellenVancouver

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Lots of people don't want accurate. Do you pick your equipment by popularity?
Hardly. All Benchmark Media (AHB2, LA4, DAC3 HGC). Amir's objective reviews were the deciding factor, and I went all Benchmark for consistency. But again, those aren't speakers (I built my own Selahs).
 

fpitas

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If I wanted to sell a Genelec, for whatever reason, ASR is a logical place.
 

Cbdb2

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Yes. Something has to please 100% of my polling population.

I was talking about the 'for sale' section here...do you think lots of people here don't want accurate, so that's why they are unloading it? I'll let you take that up with them!

The number of people trying to get rid of gear can give one an indication of how well something pleases the group of people who bought the stuff. Especially as a measurement of pleasure over time.
Yes there are people here that think they want accurate, thats what ASR espouses but when they hear it it doesn't satisfy. Why do you think people sell there Genelecs, they sound bad?
 

Anton D

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When you let your ears decide is is at home or at the store? You know they will sound different and your pick in the store may not be your pick at home.
I would never buy a speaker with out listening to it (electronics I would), but I would also check the measurements.
100% true.

Terrible confession: I am a bad customer when it comes to buying 'new' speakers. For the exact reason you mention: a store is not my home. Actually, any environment other than my home is not my home, sorry for that platitude!

In general, I am inefficient. I like shows, meeting other audiophiles, hearing what the people in my area clubs are listening to...and, over time, starting to get a vibe for what I might enjoy next. Then, I watch for opportunities.

I also believe there is no perfect speaker, I will always be listening to the end of the gear chain that is most flawed. I think that any of us, over time, grow to see those flaws with the experience of many hours of listening and thinking it over. Then, we either 'stay together, or break up.' The hobby allows for changes over time, and we move on to the next imperfect speaker. Some times, we even mistake 'different' for better.' Or we change and ask something of the speakers we didn't ask previously. So, enjoy and see how it goes is my speaker approach.

Speakers are the most volatile relation we have with gear, I think.

Measurements can give me an idea what to expect from a speaker and can make auditions more efficient - knowing measurement flaws in advance can more quickly direct my attention to the flaws, so I do NOT mean to impune measurements, either! But, for speakers, I'm generally in the listening camp.
 
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