Wilson Alexia V - 2023 Stereophile Speaker of the Year ???

[fpitas]

a perfectly measured bookshelf simply sucks in the lower registers

Huh? I mean it will lack in SPL, because of the cutesy woofer, but...

 

[fpitas]

View attachment 330776Poor measuring highly reviewed high price speakers seem to be a thing. This graph from Stereophile review of Radho 3 something earlier this year. I think reviewers get seduced by lots of air moving in the lower registers.

I think there's more to it than that. They have a poor track record of recommending expensive junk. Caveat emptor.

 

[Hauxon]

Really you are thanking them for celebrating poor engineering!
Keith

Not really. These products chosen can’t really be categorised as poorly engineered. Products aren’t either perfect or horrible. They just chose what gave them the most enjoyment. The experience might have been coloured by the luxury aspect, acoustics, day form or some other factors, we don’t know, but it’s what they felt. And for me I really don’t care since I won’t ever be buying gear for tens of thousands.

 

[Pearljam5000]

So you're telling me a Neumann KH120 or a Genelec 8351 sounds better and is more accurate than a Wilson XVX?

 

[fpitas]

So you're telling me a Neumann KH120 or a Genelec 8351 sounds better and is more accurate than a Wilson XVX?

Those are two very different questions. More accurate? Definitely. Sound better? I bet 99% of the general public will think the Wilson sounds better in sighted listening. Especially if they know the price.

 

[Soria Moria]

So you're telling me a Neumann KH120 or a Genelec 8351 sounds better and is more accurate than a Wilson XVX?

Would that be hard to believe?

 

[fpitas]

Would that be hard to believe?

In sighted listening I bet most people will think the Wilson is far better, because it looks expensive.

 

[JustJones]

So you're telling me a Neumann KH120 or a Genelec 8351 sounds better and is more accurate than a Wilson XVX?

Look at the finalists of 2022 behind the winner Blade Two Meta.

Finalists (in alphabetical order)
Estelon Forza ($149,000–$163,000/pair depending upon finish; reviewed by Michael Fremer in November 2021, Vol.44 No.11 review)
Genelec G Three ($1590/pair; reviewed by Herb Reichert in August 2022, Vol.45 No.8 review)
MBL Radialstrahler 120 ($24,900/pair; reviewed by Julie Mullins in November 2021, Vol.44 No.11 review)
Perlisten S7t ($17,990/pair; reviewed by Kal Rubinson in December 2021, Vol.44 No.12 review)
Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx V ($135,000–$151,000/pair depending on finish; reviewed by Jim Austin in December 2021, Vol.44 No.12 review)

Most surprising, perhaps, is the Genelec G Three, which not only made the finals but held its own in the final voting despite costing just over 1% of what the Wilsons cost and slightly less than 1% the price of the Estelons.

 

[fpitas]

Genelec G Three active loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system, a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone, and an Earthworks microphone preamplifier to measure the Genelec G Three's frequency response in the farfield. I used an Earthworks QTC-40 mike for the nearfield responses.

www.stereophile.com

 

[ahofer]

LOL!

You only listen to things that aren’t a ‘waste of time.’

You would just put your nose up in the air and refuse the visit.

Seriously, astounding and self congratulatory!

Why is that? Don't you value your time? It's a finite resource for all of us. My time is worth a lot, and it isn't particularly 'self-congratulatory' to think so. Simultaneously there is a whole thread on "simplicity" as a virtue in systems, much of which revolves around how one wants to use their precious time on earth. It's a good thing to think about.

I've ducked in at a shop and listened to Wilsons out of curiousity (and found them a bit fatiguing), but I certainly wouldn't take a precious weekend day or evening specifically to go and listen. They measure inadequately for the price. Listening won't make them sound audibly better.

As I said, that's what measurements are for - to make sure your potential equipment purchase is suited to the task at hand.

I'm mystified that you find these practical notions to be some sort of snobbery. It's very strange.

 

[ahofer]

There are plenty of speakers that measure poorly and people love them. ATC, Harbeth, lots of others. It's up to the person to decide. This is my take I am not telling anyone they have to go do it, or moving goalposts. The rancor on this forum is W I L D.

What rancor? I'm simply pointing out that in your second post you qualified your assertion that people should go listen with the very permissive phrase "if you have the time and interest". From "should" to "if you care". Big difference. I haven't attacked anyone personally, just their statements.

btw, I own Harbeths in one of my systems. They sound pretty good, but not as good as my Revels (F228be second hand at roughly what I paid for the Harbeths). Performance seems pretty consistent with measurements, but these are pretty small differences in the grand scheme of things. The Revels take to EQ a lot better, which makes sense. Harbeths are good on axis, the issue is dispersion.

 

[prestigetone]

What rancor? I'm simply pointing out that in your second post you qualified your assertion that people should go listen with the very permissive phrase "if you have the time and interest". From "should" to "if you care". Big difference. I haven't attacked anyone personally, just their statements.

btw, I own Harbeths in one of my systems. They sound pretty good, but not as good as my Revels (F228be second hand at roughly what I paid for the Harbeths). Performance seems pretty consistent with measurements, but these are pretty small differences in the grand scheme of things. The Revels take to EQ a lot better, which makes sense. Harbeths are good on axis, the issue is dispersion.

When did I use the dreaded S word? I said "I don't see how at least checking out a poor speaker that costs too much wouldn't be a learning experience." Everyone is free to conclude on their own. Data means different things to different people as do measurements. People take opinions on here as fact. I was just stating mine, that to me remaining objective also means putting bias aside and listening to things that may measure like crap IF you want to. Harbeths are a speaker people love myself included but Amir doesnt recommend those or the LS 3/5. You said my "advice" was "terrible." That sounds rancorous. But I might need to measure what I am hearing.

Time is valuable and I've never heard Wilsons, but wouldn't turn down the opportunity, thought it would be interesting to compare what's put out on this talk against real world impressions. Boy was I wrong.

Yeah, and there are power cables and magic stones to put on your streamer that do absolutely nothing and people love them. I doubt many here have any problem with people spending their money on stuff that makes them happy. But people also know that with proper preconceptions and when listening sighted anything can sound great, there is nothing of interest to discuss there. "Dude I know listened to this speaker in some other dudes home in some listening conditions with some music with some beverages and he said he had good time, what do you guys think about the speaker?"

There is no rancor here. You just don't get or don't want to get what is being said to you and your defense mechanism is the same thing the "real audiophiles" have been using for the couple of decades I've been in these discussions: "these people are just so mean, prejudiced and probably envious of these expensive gadgets". I don't like what I'm being told so the people saying it are this and that. Ok, go with that and let it go.

Magic stones are vastly different than speakers that suck in the data department but people love the way they sound. Those stones dont change the material or size of the drivers.

I enjoy going into things with an open mind and asked if anyone had heard these actual speakers to verify what the data was telling them. That's valuable, to me. I buy speakers that are ruler flat if I can. There is an abundance of X vs Y opinions here and on other forums and if you disagree you're wrong. The bridge between the two I think is worth exploring at times. Oh I get what is being said!

 

[ahofer]

When did I use the dreaded S word?

This was your original comment.

This "If someone asks if you wanna go hear a pair, don't put your nose in the air and complain about their looks or price, just go see what it is that person put together for you to hear." Putting preconceived notions aside is generally always a good thing to go in with an open mind at least.

Saying something is awful because it doesn't measure well without hearing it, is just as bad as saying something is perfect because it measures well without hearing it. Or going based on looks. 100% objectivity isnt really achievable. Like I said measurements for me are the starting point.

The first highlighted text suggests the imperative, the second is the terrible advice, because it isn’t true - if it measures terribly, it will degrade fidelity, and if it measures well it is very likely to sound good (not ‘perfect’).

Subsequently you diluted the imperative to why not go hear it if you are have the time/interest?.

And why not complain about looks or price as well? If something looks bad, that’s bad. If the price is too high, that is also a problem. I like appearances, money, and time. And if it looks bad to you, the price is too high, and it measures poorly, why spend any more time on it at all?

It seems like you are implying unmeasurable sound properties without coming out and saying it. Do you think there are aspects of sound that cannot be measured, or just that the current suite of measurements aren’t up to the task?

 

[prestigetone]

This was your original comment.



The first highlighted text suggests the imperative, the second is the terrible advice, because it isn’t true - if it measures terribly, it will degrade fidelity, and if it measures well it is very likely to sound good (not ‘perfect’).

Subsequently you diluted the imperative to why not go hear it if you are have the time/interest?.

And why not complain about looks or price as well? If something looks bad, that’s bad. If the price is too high, that is also a problem. I like appearances, money, and time. And if it looks bad to you, the price is too high, and it measures poorly, why spend any more time on it at all?

It seems like you are implying unmeasurable sound properties without coming out and saying it. Do you think there are aspects of sound that cannot be measured, or just that the current suite of measurements aren’t up to the task?

Grammar police out in full force! LOL. It was in response to what the op who heard the Wilsons said, which in my mind was someone asks if you want to hear a set of $100K speakers and you're at their place. If you're there in the room, you would reply no it's a waste of time because these measure like garbage?

I would spend time on it because I want to know what sounds and looks bad and costs $100k. I don't like Maserati cars. They are known to be unreliable and don't drive well but if someone handed me the keys I would take it for a spin. Why? Because it gives me more data points. Maybe some things it does well. Others confirm what I thought already, but it's still information that is valuable.

I have only bought speakers that measure well generally. Data is the most important starting point. But when I look at the whole picture yes there are things that measurements cannot convey. As I said I had D&D 8Cs. They are among the best out there in terms of their benchmarks, however in the end I liked other speakers that don't measure as well (Geithain) better. There are markers of taste that cannot be measured. My cake analogy stands. If two people make a cake. They bake it the same. Same ingredients. Same temperature and exact same preparation, but one uses butter from Ireland for their frosting, and the other uses butter from France. They will taste different. The ingredients matter. But they measure the same how can this be? Even with all the same fat content etc because there are environmental and umami at play.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I am just calling out that you are really cherry picking my words and looking for a debate. For someone who is values precious time why say what I am saying is invaluable? I never said that about anything you posted. You're cropping parts of the entire picture out.

 

[Cbdb2]

This "If someone asks if you wanna go hear a pair, don't put your nose in the air and complain about their looks or price, just go see what it is that person put together for you to hear." Putting preconceived notions aside is generally always a good thing to go in with an open mind at least.

Saying something is awful because it doesn't measure well without hearing it, is just as bad as saying something is perfect because it measures well without hearing it. Or going based on looks. 100% objectivity isnt really achievable. Like I said measurements for me are the starting point.

Your talking about being open minded not objective. Im all for open minded as long as your brain doesn't fall out.

 

[Cbdb2]

What’s best with the Stereophile products of the year is that we are all forced to discuss the purpose of audio gear, namely allowing us to enjoy music. And to enjoy music you really don’t need perfection. Sometimes slight imperfections don’t have that much impact on our ability to listen and enjoy. I would guess that with the Wilson speaker what it does well somewhat outweighs its weak parts. Just like a perfectly measured bookshelf simply sucks in the lower registers it may still be a wonderful speaker. So thank you Stereophile for choosing equipment based on enjoyment rather than graphs!

I think your giving Stereophile way to much credit. They choose equipment based on price and advertising revenue.

 

[Anton D]

Those are two very different questions. More accurate? Definitely. Sound better? I bet 99% of the general public will think the Wilson sounds better in sighted listening. Especially if they know the price.

He seemed to be asking you.

 

[fpitas]

He seemed to be asking you.

Yeah? Not how I read it. But, I'd almost certainly choose the Genelecs.

 

[ahofer]

Grammar police out in full force! LOL. It was in response to what the op who heard the Wilsons said, which in my mind was someone asks if you want to hear a set of $100K speakers and you're at their place. If you're there in the room, you would reply no it's a waste of time because these measure like garbage?

I would spend time on it because I want to know what sounds and looks bad and costs $100k. I don't like Maserati cars. They are known to be unreliable and don't drive well but if someone handed me the keys I would take it for a spin. Why? Because it gives me more data points. Maybe some things it does well. Others confirm what I thought already, but it's still information that is valuable.

I have only bought speakers that measure well generally. Data is the most important starting point. But when I look at the whole picture yes there are things that measurements cannot convey. As I said I had D&D 8Cs. They are among the best out there in terms of their benchmarks, however in the end I liked other speakers that don't measure as well (Geithain) better. There are markers of taste that cannot be measured. My cake analogy stands. If two people make a cake. They bake it the same. Same ingredients. Same temperature and exact same preparation, but one uses butter from Ireland for their frosting, and the other uses butter from France. They will taste different. The ingredients matter. But they measure the same how can this be? Even with all the same fat content etc because there are environmental and umami at play.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I am just calling out that you are really cherry picking my words and looking for a debate. For someone who is values precious time why say what I am saying is invaluable? I never said that about anything you posted. You're cropping parts of the entire picture out.

What grammar police? I just showed you what you said, and i haven't cherry picked. And my point about bad advice seems unrefuted.

Food analogies prove the opposite of what you seem to be arguing. Things taste differently due to chemical differences, as do wines, and this is quite measurable. those butters have different consistencies and chemical make up. In sound, room interactions are, of course, chaotic yet measurable. What, exactly are these audible "markers of taste" that cannot be measured? I believe this is the crux of the important disagreement, as opposed to my normal aversion to wasting time on underperforming luxury goods.

For someone who is values precious time why say what I am saying is invaluable? I never said that about anything you posted

Am I missing a typo in there? Not sure what that's about.

 

[fpitas]

I think a lot of casual listeners do get seduced easily by lots of bass response.

What, exactly are these audible "markers of taste" that cannot be measured?