WiiM Ultra

[antcollinet]

A well implemented loudness function maybe? Room correction with PEQ and time alignment for speakers vs. subwoofers maybe?

None of those were in the listed improvements

 

[rcstevensonaz]

None of those were in the listed improvements

The original question was: "Anyone compared the Ultra's internal DAC to RME /Benchmark DACs?"
The original answer was: "The RME or any other dac won't and can't be any better."

My point is that DACs (as a system unit) are different and that the sound quality of one can be better, based on which factors you are looking at. Telling people "they are all the same because they are all perfect" does a disservice to those who might actually be trying to determine which one is right for their situation.

Edit: My comment also addressed the specific items that were listed, and suggested that none of them are expected to have a direct material impact on sound quality when comparing between the Ultra, an ADI-2, and a Benchmark for consumer home audio context. But that there were other aspects of the WiiM vs RME DAC (as a system unit) which could have a material sound quality impact when comparing between them.

 

[Petevid]

I understand that in a DAC audibly perfect equates to total transparency. If this is achieved how can it be improved upon?

 

[Pearljam5000]

I understand that in a DAC audibly perfect equates to total transparency. If this is achieved how can it be improved upon?

Then why would RME develop the special circuit and all the rest of the stuff if it's just going to sound the same as any other DAC anyways ?

 

[staticV3]

Then why would RME develop the special circuit and all the rest of the stuff if it's just going to sound the same as any other DAC anyways ?

It's just marketing.

Every manufacturer that's focused on objective sound quality develops a "special circuit variant" which allows the DAC chip to perform at its best.

Ensuring that the DAC chip is "well fed" is just part of competent audio circuit design.

 

[Petevid]

To sell kit presumably. They're claiming their developments measure better and who is to doubt them? No claims about audible improvements though.

 

[Ze Frog]

Can anyone please confirm the Ultra has adjustable low and high pass please?

 

[JiiPee]

Do we have any objective performance data concerning the integrated phono stage and headphones amp yet ?

 

[joostdh]

Do we have any objective performance data concerning the integrated phono stage and headphones amp yet ?

Nope

 

[MGJ]

Can anyone please confirm the Ultra has adjustable low and high pass please?

The Ultra has adjustable LP/HP shelf filters.

 

[Ze Frog]

The Ultra has adjustable LP/HP shelf filters.

Awesome stuff.
It's looking like my next system will be a Wiim Ultra, Genelec 8030c's, 2 SVS SB1000 Pro's then.
A whole incredible system for the price of a mediocre pair of bookshelves in the hi-fi realm, not too shabby at all.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Awesome stuff.
It's looking like my next system will be a Wiim Ultra, Genelec 8030c's, 2 SVS SB1000 Pro's then.
A whole incredible system for the price of a mediocre pair of bookshelves in the hi-fi realm, not too shabby at all.

How do you connect the Ultra to the Genelecs?

 

[staticV3]

The Ultra has adjustable LP/HP shelf filters.

Shelf and pass filters are different things.

For crossover work, you definitely want pass filters.

While the PEQ window only has peak and shelf filters, there should be a separate menu where you can enable the Sub output and choose a crossover frequency.

Doing so would apply appropriate pass filters to the sub and mains output.

 

[JustJones]

How do you connect the Ultra to the Genelecs?

8030c have analog in. RCA to XLR adapter
Would be nice if it had balanced but added cost of course

 

[Ze Frog]

How do you connect the Ultra to the Genelecs?

I'm assuming some RCA to XLR adaptors. The Gennies have a rather hot gain on input anyway, so no real concerns regarding input voltage. Then a splitter from sub output to both subs.

 

[Pearljam5000]

8030c have analog in. RCA to XLR adapter
Would be nice if it had balanced but added cost of course

Do you need something else if it's an active studio monitor with a built in DAC like KH150?

 

[antcollinet]

My point is that DACs (as a system unit) are different and that the sound quality of one can be better, based on which factors you are looking at. Telling people "they are all the same because they are all perfect" does a disservice to those who might actually be trying to determine which one is right for their situation.

A DAC has one, and only one job, and that is to accurately convert the digital representation of music from the source into an analog representation of that music. Well measuring DACS do that with inaudible levels of noise and distortion, and with flat frequency response in the audible band. In other words the analogue output is (audibly) a perfect representation of the digitally encoded music.

If two DACS both achieve this (and well measuring DACS do) then the analog signal from both must be identical within audible limits. By definition, they must sound the same.

Or at least, assuming the amp and speakers are the same, will result in identical sound waves reaching the ear of the listener. What the listeners brain does with that sound information, and how it mixes in the environment, expectations of the listener, mood of the listener etc etc to "colour" the perception of that sound has nothing to do with the performance of the DAC.


Basically - we can select from the Blue and green sections of the chart here, and stop worrying about how a DAC sounds. That can free us up to consider other buying decisions, such as price, reliability, brand and features - including those features that can make an improvement to the in room sound - such as room EQ. Bear in mind though that those features (including EQ) also have nothing to do with the performance of the DAC circuit, but are about the DSP done before conversion to analogue.

 

[Ze Frog]

So WiiM Ultra should sound as good as this DAC?View attachment 381720

Having seen how many Uber expensive DAC's actually measure on here, it's highly plausible the WIIM could better it. Plus even if you can afford it, is it really $114,670 difference in sound quality? I highly doubt it.

 

[MGJ]

Shelf and pass filters are different things.

For crossover work, you definitely want pass filters.

While the PEQ window only has peak and shelf filters, there should be a separate menu where you can enable the Sub output and choose a crossover frequency.

Doing so would apply appropriate pass filters to the sub and mains output.

Sorry, that should have been: The Ultra has adjustable L/H shelf filters.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

If you’re wanting balanced outs, just add a DAC with balanced outs to the WiiM; I suspect many (most?) of those wanting that facility will have such a DAC already.