WiiM Ultra

[Sokel]

Good question. I have not messed with the EQ or room correction at all or seen any actual numbers. All I know at this point is that everything I have played on my setup in my office sounds great to me. Of course my previous setup with a Wiim Pro Plus going into a Loxjie A40 amplifier also sounded great.

I am moving the Pro Plus and Loxjie to my bedroom setup.

I figure Wiim will send a unit to Amir soon so we can get trustworthy accurate measurements.

Amir usually don't measures EQ as in other threads and the sublime performance has slipped under the radar (like miniDsp,Topping;'s DSP,etc)
But eventually we'll see the numbers I guess.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Amir usually don't measures EQ as in other threads and the sublime performance has slipped under the radar (like miniDsp,Topping;'s DSP,etc)
But eventually we'll see the numbers I guess.

He has done some measurements on the WiiM Pro Plus and latest Topping DACs with EQ. More detailed on the latter.

 

[Sokel]

Yes,we got some hints.
More detailed as this ones needed IMO,as DSP is an essential part now days,like this or this.
(same problems can be found elsewhere,like Bluesound Node,etc)

 

[Transmaniacon]

https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/wiim-ultra-not-getting-apple-airplay/ for the details.

That is disappointing, looks like I’m keeping my AirPort Express for now.

 

[Petevid]

That is disappointing, looks like I’m keeping my AirPort Express for now.

You could connect the digital output of the Airport Express into the Ultra so you then benefit from the extra features and functionality of the Ultra.

Be interesting to see though whether this article is true. Time will tell.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

You could connect the digital output of the Airport Express into the Ultra so you then benefit from the extra features and functionality of the Ultra.

Be interesting to see though whether this article is true. Time will tell.

Given the usability and feature set of the Ultra, and the fact you can pick these up used for £30, I’m amazed anyone would not go down this route, given that they were attracted to the WiiM in the first place.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Yes,we got some hints.
More detailed as this ones needed IMO,as DSP is an essential part now days,like this or this.
(same problems can be found elsewhere,like Bluesound Node,etc)

Not long ago I received a Topping PA5ii amp. The noise was so low as to be undetectable, even with my ear to the tweeter and everything (including WiiM Mini, Topping DAC, and PA5ii) turned up to 100%.

I’ll try it again with ‘excessive’ EQ and let you know if there’s any change.

 

[Petevid]

Given the usability and feature set of the Ultra, and the fact you can pick these up used for £30, I’m amazed anyone would not go down this route, given that they were attracted to the WiiM in the first place.

You could also use a Wiim mini into the Ultra to get Airplay. Then when hopefully the issue is resolved use the Wiim mini elsewhere.

 

[Sokel]

Not long ago I received a Topping PA5ii amp. The noise was so low as to be undetectable, even with my ear to the tweeter and everything (including WiiM Mini, Topping DAC, and PA5ii) turned up to 100%.

I’ll try it again with ‘excessive’ EQ and let you know if there’s any change.

You may want to use a special signal for that in order to keep the chain awake as when playing music.
If we're talking about audibility only I doubt it will be an issue.

What I'm talking about is decent filter implementation from a technical point of view,we shouldn't confuse audibility with that.
It may be a good trick at the bin thread but technical threads should differ.

 

[jetman]

Hello, will it be possible to upgrade the power supply of the Wiim Ultra to a better quality external power supply? For example, with the Bluesound Node series there are various third-party upgrade kits available involving opening up the Node and replacing an internal circuit board, that then allows a 5v external power supply of your choice to be connected.

Many people with the Wiim Pro Plus, including me, find that upgrading the external power supply to, in my case, an iFi iPower2 SMPS improves sound quality. This is an ultra-low-noise switch mode power supply that incorporates noise cancelling technology.

So, there are two questions that need addressing before deciding to ditch a Wiim Pro Plus + Upgraded Power Supply for the Wiim Ultra:

1. Does a Wiim Pro Plus + Upgraded Power Supply (assume iPower2 for this example) sound better than Wiim Ultra with the stock internal power supply?
2. Can the Wiim Ultra power supply be upgraded?

 

[Brantome]

Not as designed, but who knows if some company wants to try as you describe…

 

[Transmaniacon]

You could connect the digital output of the Airport Express into the Ultra so you then benefit from the extra features and functionality of the Ultra.

Be interesting to see though whether this article is true. Time will tell.

Yeah I could, but it would be nice to just condense the two units into one.

 

[CrustyToad]

Hello, will it be possible to upgrade the power supply of the Wiim Ultra to a better quality external power supply? For example, with the Bluesound Node series there are various third-party upgrade kits available involving opening up the Node and replacing an internal circuit board, that then allows a 5v external power supply of your choice to be connected.

Many people with the Wiim Pro Plus, including me, find that upgrading the external power supply to, in my case, an iFi iPower2 SMPS improves sound quality. This is an ultra-low-noise switch mode power supply that incorporates noise cancelling technology.

So, there are two questions that need addressing before deciding to ditch a Wiim Pro Plus + Upgraded Power Supply for the Wiim Ultra:

1. Does a Wiim Pro Plus + Upgraded Power Supply (assume iPower2 for this example) sound better than Wiim Ultra with the stock internal power supply?
2. Can the Wiim Ultra power supply be upgraded?

As many people here will confirm, power supplies are a non-issue and do not change the performance of dacs and streamers in any way

 

[terryforsythe]

1. Does a Wiim Pro Plus + Upgraded Power Supply (assume iPower2 for this example) sound better than Wiim Ultra with the stock internal power supply?
2. Can the Wiim Ultra power supply be upgraded?

I would check on the WiiM forum. If anyone has insight on this, probably it will be there.

 

[antcollinet]

Hello, will it be possible to upgrade the power supply of the Wiim Ultra to a better quality external power supply?

Proviso : So far we don’t have independent measurements of the Ultra. However for the following I am assuming it’s DAC will perform just as well as the Wiim Pro. IE, Audibly perfect. This will be confirmed (or not) when we have independent measurements published here.

Perhaps from a third party retailer - but I doubt very much from wiim. This is because (see assumption above) the wiim already is audibly perfect. That means it has flat frequency response, and noise/distortion output from the DAC is below the level our ears can detect. Therefore changing the power supply - even if it improves the measurements - cannot improve the audible performance. Once audible perfection is reached, further improvements are redundant - you cannot make the imperfections more inaudible.

Many people with the Wiim Pro Plus, including me, find that upgrading the external power supply to, in my case, an iFi iPower2 SMPS improves sound quality.

What I state above also applies to the Wiim pro - whatever power supply you might have tested will not be making a real audible improvement. Whatever improvements you think you heard will either be from insufficiently matched levels - or from sighted listening - which we know is unreliable. Only properly controlled blind comparisons can be relied upon to compare devices for real audible differences. And then, apart from anything else, the time it takes to change the PSU will take longer than your audio echoic memory lasts meaning you are unable to realistically compare in any case.

So to answer your 2 questions.

1 - No, they will sound the same no matter which PSU is used
2 - Not from Wiim. Unlikely from anyone else.

Hope that helps

 

[Brian Hall]

Hello, will it be possible to upgrade the power supply of the Wiim Ultra to a better quality external power supply? For example, with the Bluesound Node series there are various third-party upgrade kits available involving opening up the Node and replacing an internal circuit board, that then allows a 5v external power supply of your choice to be connected.

Many people with the Wiim Pro Plus, including me, find that upgrading the external power supply to, in my case, an iFi iPower2 SMPS improves sound quality. This is an ultra-low-noise switch mode power supply that incorporates noise cancelling technology.

So, there are two questions that need addressing before deciding to ditch a Wiim Pro Plus + Upgraded Power Supply for the Wiim Ultra:

1. Does a Wiim Pro Plus + Upgraded Power Supply (assume iPower2 for this example) sound better than Wiim Ultra with the stock internal power supply?
2. Can the Wiim Ultra power supply be upgraded?

No need. Any improvement is just in your imagination.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Won't these things give an advantage to the RME DAC over the Ultra even if it used the same DAC chip as the Ultra ?

 

[Brian Hall]

Won't these things give an advantage to the RME DAC over the Ultra even if it used the same DAC chip as the Ultra ?View attachment 383071View attachment 383072

How can there be any advantage over something that is already audibly perfect?

 

[rcstevensonaz]

Won't these things give an advantage to the RME DAC over the Ultra even if it used the same DAC chip as the Ultra ?View attachment 383071View attachment 383072

You need to define "advantage" relative to what? To sound quality that can be measured by the most precise analyzer? To sound quality that you can hear on the best equipment in the best listening chamber? To sound quality that you can hear on your equipment in your room? To cost/value ratio for whichever of the above you choose?

Most people here tend to focus on (a) sound quality that you can hear on your equipment in your room, and (b) cost/value ratio for that difference. Which means it is very possible that one vendor may have the "advantage" on (a) while the other vendor has the "advantage" on (b).

As @Brian Hall has noted, the DAC chip won't be the issue since all measurements on both (once WiiM Ultra is verified) will be above your ability to hear any difference; neither will jitter or power supply, or RME's balanced output level. In which case, WiiM will most likely win on cost / value advantage in a home consumer environment. And RME will win for a professional studio / home recording & mixing use case.

But here are a few factors related to sound quality that might tip the scale one way or the other for a home use environment:

• WiiM's 10 band Room Correction vs. RME's 5 band PEQ
• WiiM Ultra's 2-channel + sub-out vs. RME's ADI-2 DAC with 2-channel only
• RME's Auto Reference volume feature
• RME's Loudness Function implementation

 

[rcstevensonaz]

How can there be any advantage over something that is already audibly perfect?

A well implemented loudness function maybe? Room correction with PEQ and time alignment for speakers vs. subwoofers maybe?