WiiM Ultra

[rcstevensonaz]

A DAC has one, and only one job, and that is to accurately convert the digital representation of music from the source into an analog representation of that music. Well measuring DACS do that with inaudible levels of noise and distortion, and with flat frequency response in the audible band. In other words the analogue output is (audibly) a perfect representation of the digitally encoded music.

Basically - we can select from the Blue and green sections of the chart here, and stop worrying about how a DAC sounds. That can free us up to consider other buying decisions, such as price, reliability, brand and features - including those features that can make an improvement to the in room sound - such as room EQ. Bear in mind though that those features (including EQ) also have nothing to do with the performance of the DAC circuit, but are about the DSP done before conversion to analogue.

I think we are saying essentially the same thing. The DAC chip itself will be transparent for human hearing, even if it isn't the same DAC chip between the units.

But by your definition, neither the Ultra nor the ADI-2 is a "DAC" because they both do more than "one thing", even though they include a DAC within them. And as you note, the features that those devices incorporate can make a difference.

And I understood the the original commentor as asking about more than just the DAC processing in isolation of everything else. E.g., USB receiver, jitter management, amplifier, etc.

 

[antcollinet]

I think we are saying essentially the same thing. The DAC chip itself will be transparent for human hearing, even if it isn't the same DAC chip between the units.

But by your definition, neither the Ultra nor the ADI-2 is a "DAC" because they both do more than "one thing", even though they include a DAC within them. And as you note, the features that those devices incorporate can make a difference.

And I understood the the original commentor as asking about more than just the DAC processing in isolation of everything else. E.g., USB receiver, jitter management, amplifier, etc.

No, not just the DAC chip - the entire DAC functionality in the device. The DAC chip and the analogue circuits between that and the analogue output of the device. Audibly perfect. What goes in is what comes out without audible distortion.

The extra functionality you are talking about is all about what goes INTO the DAC part of the device. The room correction/equalisation etc are all done in the digital domain before sending to the DAC.

Everything else - including USB receiver, jitter management, preamp functionality etc - all are solved problems. No audible difference to come from them - only from the deliberate DSP manipulation we want for tone control or room eq etc if those features are provided.

 

[Dreamslayer]

My Ultra was all set to arrive on Sunday or Monday but then I saw this...

My Amp and CD player are both Silver so I just had to shake the box and take my chances.
I was kind of bummed out that it only seemed to come in one color when it was announced,

 

[Jkdjedi]

My Ultra was all set to arrive on Sunday or Monday but then I saw this...
View attachment 383214
My Amp and CD player are both Silver so I just had to shake the box and take my chances.
I was kind of bummed out that it only seemed to come in one color when it was announced,

Mines gets here tomorrow, and seemed like it was only in silver when I placed the order you might get lucky. Did anyone notice the USB behind the unit is output and not an in as intillally anticipated? Dude on YouTube just confirmed this.
My only other streamer is the Audioengine B-Fi, I'm really anxious to compare the two side by side.

 

[Dreamslayer]

Mines gets here tomorrow, and seemed like it was only in silver when I placed the order you might get lucky. Did anyone notice the USB behind the unit is output and not an in as intillally anticipated? Dude on YouTube just confirmed this.
My only other streamer is the Audioengine B-Fi, I'm really anxious to compare the two side by side.

I have a Wiim Pro so I don't mind waiting a bit for the Ultra.

I heard conflicting info about the USB - I heard it could be used for files and I also heard it could be an output. I'll probably use it to connect to my Modi Multibit...

 

[rcstevensonaz]

I heard conflicting info about the USB - I heard it could be used for files and I also heard it could be an output. I'll probably use it to connect to my Modi Multibit...

That is not conflicting, and matches what they have on their product specification for the WiiM Ultra. It can be used as a media storage device ("Storage/Audio Out") or an output audio streaming port.

But, it cannot be used as in input audio streaming port. Which is what @Jkdjedi was referring to.

 

[DannyBoyNYC]

It doesn't support Airplay and never will. Possible deal breaker for me and I may send mine back to Crutchfield. WiiM has scrubbed all mention of "Airplay support pending" from its notices and locked threads on their forum where people were complaining.

 

[Emlin]

It doesn't support Airplay and never will. Possible deal breaker for me and I may send mine back to Crutchfield. WiiM has scrubbed all mention of "Airplay support pending" from its notices and locked threads on their forum where people were complaining.

That's bad. Not a good way to treat your customers. Down tick to wiim from me.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

It doesn't support Airplay and never will.

Is there a short technical summary of why it cannot ever be upgraded by firmware to support Airplay? The articles I've seen have any said that it can't be, without added detail of why that is the case on the Ultra but not on their other products.

 

[Emlin]

Is there a short technical summary of why it cannot ever be upgraded by firmware to support Airplay?

Yes, they've fucked up.

 

[DannyBoyNYC]

The current Wiim Ultra will never get Apple AirPlay | Digital Trends

Wiim's new flagship streaming music player wasn't AirPlay certified at launch, and now we know it never will be.

www.digitaltrends.com

Some say that Apple slow boated approval because of a controversy around WiiM's use of Airplay broadcasting (which they apparently removed under pressure). WiiM opted to release the units w/o the necessary chip for Airplay receiving. Its a mess either way and, as usual, the consumer loses.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

Yes, they've fucked up.

That actually raises a different "why" question... was there a breakdown in their design and development process that should have caught this, and why wasn't it? Or was this a real black swan type of event that would have been missed even through the best design processes.

For example, anyone launching product based on Intel Gen 12 / Gen 13 CPUs would not have caught the issue of Intel CPUs crashing under any normative design and development process. Was this perhaps a similar issue of incredible bad luck from a very subtle defect from a very reliable component supplier that was not detected until too late in the design and development process? Or, did someone just fuck up on some design review stage?

 

[Emlin]

That actually raises a different "why" question... was there a breakdown in their design and development process that should have caught this, and why wasn't it? Or was this a real black swan type of event that would have been missed even through the best design processes.

For example, anyone launching product based on Intel Gen 12 / Gen 13 CPUs would not have caught the issue of Intel CPUs crashing under any normative design and development process. Was this perhaps a similar issue of incredible bad luck from a very subtle defect from a very reliable component supplier that was not detected until too late in the design and development process? Or, did someone just fuck up on some design review stage?

It was a fuck-up somewhere down the line, and that's technical enough for me, as the consumer.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

The current Wiim Ultra will never get Apple AirPlay | Digital Trends

Wiim's new flagship streaming music player wasn't AirPlay certified at launch, and now we know it never will be.

www.digitaltrends.com

Some say that Apple slow boated approval because of a controversy around WiiM's use of Airplay broadcasting (which they apparently removed under pressure). WiiM opted to release the units w/o the necessary chip for Airplay receiving.

The article you referenced merely says "Wiim hasn’t provided any details around why the Ultra can’t be made compatible with AirPlay." And beside, they can't even spell the name of WiiM correctly

Do you have a source for the statement WiiM removed the necessary chip for Airplay receiving from the launched product?

 

[rcstevensonaz]

It was a fuck-up somewhere down the line, and that's technical enough for me, as the consumer.

Sure, but you weren't the one asking the question .

However, your response raised a very interesting additional question for me about their development process, since my background is product development and these sort of things are very much the heart of my world.

Edit: also to add, it is not yet clear to me whether this is a direct foul on WiiM, an indirect foul, or that they did a hero's job of trying to salvage a situation that was ultimately out of their control due to the action of other entities.

 

[DannyBoyNYC]

The article you referenced merely says "Wiim hasn’t provided any details around why the Ultra can’t be made compatible with AirPlay." And beside, they can't even spell the name of WiiM correctly

Do you have a source for the statement WiiM removed the necessary chip for Airplay receiving from the launched product?

From WiiM : "The software can't add AirPlay since the device requires an MFi authentication chip. We can only sell devices with this chip after certification. Therefore, a separate SKU and hardware are necessary to support AirPlay for the WiiM Ultra." - https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/bummer-if-you-use-apple-music.4119/ (account required)

 

[rcstevensonaz]

From WiiM : "The software can't add AirPlay since the device requires an MFi authentication chip. We can only sell devices with this chip after certification. Therefore, a separate SKU and hardware are necessary to support AirPlay for the WiiM Ultra." - https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/bummer-if-you-use-apple-music.4119/ (account required)

Fantastic and thanks!!!

 

[Emlin]

Sure, but you weren't the one asking the question .

However, your response raised a very interesting additional question for me about their development process, since my background is product development and these sort of things are very much the heart of my world.

Edit: also to add, it is not yet clear to me whether this is a direct foul on WiiM, an indirect foul, or that they did a hero's job of trying to salvage a situation that was ultimately out of their control due to the action of other entities.

And you weren't the person replying. So effing what?

 

[rcstevensonaz]

And you weren't the person replying. So effing what?

Sorry, no offense was intended! You replied that it was fuck up (to my original question of technical detail), which them prompted me to further wonder how their process allowed that technical issue to arise in the first place.

You said it was a fuck up and that was all you cared about. No worries there mate. But I said it was me that asked the question, and I did care... now on both the technical and also the process front as a result of your response.

 

[Brian Hall]

Can anyone please confirm the Ultra has adjustable low and high pass please?