WiiM Amp Streaming Amplifier Review

[Sokel]

Would you be so nice and add your personal point in textual form, so I know if you agree or disagree with what I said?

I might be watching the video sooner or later, then.

I have already stated lots of times in this thread that load dependency is an absolute no go for me expect one has all sets of data for the speakers is about to plug to it.
Then,as demonstrated here one can calculate the behavior almost exactly and then decide.
At the same thread there's also an ABX test proving the audibility.

Other that that,it's variable,random and depends on luck if you end up with something that sounds natural or aggressive.

 

[pjug]

I have already stated lots of times in this thread that load dependency is an absolute no go for me expect one has all sets of data for the speakers is about to plug to it.
Then,as demonstrated here one can calculate the behavior almost exactly and then decide.
At the same thread there's also an ABX test proving the audibility.

Other that that,it's variable,random and depends on luck if you end up with something that sounds natural or aggressive.

I agree that it is a good idea to do the calculations. It isn't that hard to do with VituixCAD and most people here I think would be able to do this. Only problem is we don't usually know exactly what the output filter values are, but guessing like @NTK did will probably get you pretty close.

 

[Antlestxp]

So you are driving it into clipping? Are the amps you are comparing of the same power rating? At both 4 and 8 ohm?

My lowest power device is a marantz pm7000n at 60 watts into 8 ohms. It has never had an issue. My newer equipment other than the wiim on its way back is rated higher. It is my understanding that 1 watt should already be pretty loud. 60 should be well beyond what I would want to sit in front of for a duration of time right?

 

[antcollinet]

It is my understanding that 1 watt should already be pretty loud

Depends on your speaker sensitivity and listening distance.

60 should be well beyond what I would want to sit in front of for a duration of time right?

Well yes - on a continuous basis. But if you need (say) 4W for your continuous average, you may well need 15dB headroom for the peaks if your music - which would take you to 126W or so on the peaks.

Put it another way - 60W amp with 15dB. headroom - only allows you 2W average - which may or not be enough depending on the variables mentioned above.

 

[Jazz]

I'm looking for an amp (not AVR not reciever) to drive magnepan mmg (original model). I am looking for around 100 watt 8 ohm for each. A little less is OK. A little more is better. They are 4 ohm speakers. The problem is my budget is well under $300. Any ideas?

 

[antcollinet]

I'm looking for an amp (not AVR not reciever) to drive magnepan mmg (original model). I am looking for around 100 watt 8 ohm for each. A little less is OK. A little more is better. They are 4 ohm speakers. The problem is my budget is well under $300. Any ideas?

Have a look at Yamaha A-S301 - a bit overbudget.

Or Fosi V3 with 48V PSU - well within budget.

 

[Jazz]

Have a look at Yamaha A-S301 - a bit overbudget.

Or Fosi V3 with 48V PSU - well within budget.

If only the Yamaha was a bit lower, and my furnace did not break with a $2100 bill last week. I'd been looking at the Yamaha though…
How does the Fosi work? I see no remote and no preamp. If I am sending line level into it, do we have to be cavemen and stand up for volume control? I'll be sending that line level via a second zone RCA out from AVR. I can send it full or, and this is where I do not know what I am talking about, not full? Meaning, my main unit becomes the volume control? or not? Confused… thanks

 

[harkpabst]

If only the Yamaha was a bit lower, and my furnace did not break with a $2100 bill last week. I'd been looking at the Yamaha though…
How does the Fosi work? I see no remote and no preamp. If I am sending line level into it, do we have to be cavemen and stand up for volume control? I'll be sending that line level via a second zone RCA out from AVR. I can send it full or, and this is where I do not know what I am talking about, not full? Meaning, my main unit becomes the volume control? or not? Confused… thanks

Sounds like a topic for a dedicated thread.

 

[harkpabst]

I have already stated lots of times in this thread that load dependency is an absolute no go for me expect one has all sets of data for the speakers is about to plug to it.

So, I took the time and watched Amir's video in full. Unfortunately it does not really back up your point. It does not end this debate once and for all. It clearly shows the well known effect (and nobody ever questioned its existence), but it doesn't make any claims regarding audibility.

Of course, you may still decide that load dependency is an absolute no go for you, but @amirm did not say so. You also better define a threshold for what you consider "no load dependency". Every amplifier with a non-zero output impedance will show some load dependency. Ideal current source amplifiers are a topic on their own (or more precisely: they would be, if they really existed as commercial products).

You also decided to ignore the main point of my post, which simply was: Load dependent frequency response (yes, not a good thing) has nothing to do with power, it happens at all levels. The term load must not be misinterpreted here. That's kind of funny, because it is pretty much what you put emphasis on before (and you were right in doing so).

Then,as demonstrated here one can calculate the behavior almost exactly and then decide.
At the same thread there's also an ABX test proving the audibility.

Well ... yes, but ...

Other that that,it's variable,random and depends on luck if you end up with something that sounds natural or aggressive.

... what @NTK has shown is how the result is not random, but clearly predictable.

Would I have hoped for WiiM implementing PFFB in the amp? Sure. Is the shown behavior unacceptable? No. Does price make a difference for what is acceptable? Yep! Is the WiiM Amp a $300 amp? No, it's a streamer, a DAC, an equalizer and an amplifier for $300. Is anybody forced to by it? No.

In the meantime WiiM have confirmed 10 band PEQ and room correction to come.

 

[antcollinet]

Sounds like a topic for a dedicated thread.

Yes - or at least it doesn't belong in this one. @Jazz feel free to make a new thread in the amplifiers forum and tag me in.

 

[Sokel]

Of course, you may still decide that load dependency is an absolute no go for you, but @amirm did not say so. You also better define a threshold for what you consider "no load dependency". Every amplifier with a non-zero output impedance will show some load dependency. Ideal current source amplifiers are a topic on their own (or more precisely: they would be, if they really existed as commercial products).

As for Amir:

I will add though that he is right in one respect: if you are seriously into this hobby you need to step up for load independent amplifiers and those with more power. For that reason, I would never use one outside of workshop, etc. But if all you have is $80, these are fantastic choices to have compared to junk that used to be sold just a couple of years ago.

(from this post)

I would not debate so much if implementation of PFFB was expensive/complex/whatever but it's not.
So...

 

[harkpabst]

As for Amir:


(from this post)

I would not debate so much if implementation of PFFB was expensive/complex/whatever but it's not.
So...

So what? If all you have is $80 for an amplifier (and $220 more for streamer, DAC and EQ/room correction, there is still little to chose from. Plus you (as an expert) can still recommend those speakers to your less wealthy friends that won't expose the weaknesses of the amplification concept.

Nor sure what your point on PFFB is. WiiM made there statement on why they didn't go for it. People didn't like that statement. Other manufacturers did not say why they didn't use it, at all. All that talks about how PFFB was dead cheap and only dumb heads would not use it (totally ignoring the fact that you're giving up gain) ... I cannot hear that anymore.

 

[pjug]

I have a pair of Overnight Sensations speakers that have similar impedance curve to the C-note. I will see if I have a little time to show how bad the amplifier voltage frequency curve is when driving these speakers with a Class D amplifier (no FFFB).

Following up, here is the Sonos Amp output vs frequency into Overnight Sensations. It isn't quite as bad as I remembered but still an interesting example. Keep in mind Sonos has a 48KHz sample rate limit and only the shoulder of the resonant peak happens below 24KHz.

The WiiM amp does do higher sample rates, so consider what happens at higher frequencies, as shown with modeling:

Is this a problem? I don't know but I don't like it. If I was using the WiiM amp with speakers like this I would probably use airplay or some other way to make sure I wasn't sending anything over 22KHz to the amp.

 

[GDWL34]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Amp streaming amplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $299.
View attachment 350879
I was pleasantly surprised by the good bit of weight this small box has. It will help it not slide with the weight of the speaker wires and such. Back panel shows the differentiation from a regular amplifier:
View attachment 350880
With included streaming, you have a one box solution to play your content over the network. You can use the included Bluetooth remote or the application. The latter was rock solid which is more than I can say about some other (major) streaming amplifiers. It instantly found the device, upgraded its firmware and allowed reliable control of all function. I can't do justice to all of its capabilities in this performance related review but suffice it to say, it is very capable.

HDMI ARC allows a smart TV to feed the amplifier signal for content you play internally to your TV. A nice quality HDMI cable was provided (in addition to Toslink and even RCA) which was appreciated.

The only complaint I have is with similar looking subwoofer out. Looking from above, I thought that was the other input channel and spent good bit of time trying to figure out why I was only getting sound out of one channel. Having it be located elsewhere would help as opposed to being lined up with the left audio input channel.

Another nit is the rotary volume control not always acting on the volume. You would have to go two notches for example to change volume.

This review has taken a while to get out. The first sample I received performed well in most of the tests but showed quite an increase in distortion at lower frequencies. This manifested in Multitone test and power vs frequency sweeps. I ran the results by the company and they said this was an early production problem that was fixed. They sent me a new one which almost remedied that problem.

WiiM Amp Amplifier Review
With access to AP's APx516 analyzer, I was able to test the HDMI ARC on WiiM Amp:
View attachment 350882
This puts the amplifier comfortable above our average of all amplifiers tested:
View attachment 350883
View attachment 350884
For streaming, I wanted to use Roon but seems that is not there yet. Fortunately Chromecast is there which provides similar high performance streaming:
View attachment 350885
So no difference with respect to which digital input you use. Analog streaming in the first sample I tested was a bit worse with SINAD of 85 dB. The new sample degraded some with low frequency noise down to 80 dB (not shown). I assume this is not material to most users where analog input is only used for LP and such.

Cycling through inputs, here is dynamic range using Toslink:
View attachment 350887

Frequency response unfortunately shows the typical load dependency in lower cost class D amplifiers:
View attachment 350889

Here is the sub out:
View attachment 350892

As noted, multitone shows good performance now:
View attachment 350888

19 and 20 kHz intermodulation test shows the increased distortion there:
View attachment 350890

Crosstalk wasn't that great with analog input (inset) but very nice with digital:
View attachment 350891

Normally I sweep power with analog input but since digital is much better, I used that: [edit: "8 ohm" label is wrong in the first graph, should say 4 ohm).
View attachment 350893
View attachment 350894

Unless you use analog input, the gain settings is designed such that you never clip. This means that the "peak" power is the same as what I have measured above. Spec is 120 watts at 4 ohm and we are achieving that so no issue there. Same with 60 watt specified for 8 ohm.

Here is power sweep at different frequencies:
View attachment 350895
The graphs are well behaved for a class D amplifier. 20 Hz distortion though, rises good bit (dashed yellow).

Finally, the amplifier is stable on power up:
View attachment 350896

Conclusions
The WiiM Amp is a very well executed streaming, multi-room amplifier. It easily plays against big boys of streaming despite lacking their name recognition. Objective performance is very good for the class. The only wish is post output filter feedback to eliminate low dependency of the frequency response.

I am going to put the WiiM Amp amplifier on my recommended list.

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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

Great for a spare room of office system. I'm the very happy owner of a pair of Klipsch RP-600M and can now use the EQ to help where needed. They sound great already in my office on dediacted stands.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

The latest update from WiiM says they’re now aiming to up the PEQ to 10 bands.

 

[amix]

Edit: I realized this is a speaker amp and that is what was tested since there wasn't a line out. The performance is actually good for a speaker amp considering the price of this entire box.

What makes this device exceptional is the highly capable bass management with High-Pass filter, graphic and parametric EQ (which will get updated soon for 10 band, they also currently test full room EQ) the feature packed firmware with support for many services and the interest for user's wishes the company shows in their forums. Well and then looks and price...

 

[amix]

So...when is Wiim going to release more than 4-band PEQ again?

It's in testing already and room EQ in the works.

 

[amix]

It's just an amazing bargain: DAC, Streamer, Bluetooth Receiver, 4 band EQ, and a 60 watt power amp for $300. Also looks really nice.

Nobody ever mentions the full base management with high pass filter!

Does it have a remote?

Yes. If it's the same as for the Pro Plus streamer, then it's pretty nice: Volume, Mute, Next, Previous, Source Cycle, Push to Talk Microphone and four Presets, that I have set to Internet Radio stations.

 

[Pinkynator]

The 10-band PEQ will come to more devices (possibly even the Mini!).

This type of company is rare. I wish they were listed on the stock market because I'd invest all my savings and get rich shortly after.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

The 10-band PEQ will come to more devices (possibly even the Mini!).

This type of company is rare. I wish they were listed on the stock market because I'd invest all my savings and get rich shortly after.

It’s funny. At first they said that wanted to increase PEQ to 8 band on all models. Then they said they’re bring in room correction for all models. Then they updated the roadmap for each device, but PEQ increases and room correction were on all devices, except the Mini.

Then in a later post they said they still wanted to bring this to the Mini.

Time will tell.