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Why aren't we bringing the equipment prices down with more published blind test demos?

hvbias said:
Price I paid for JBL LSR 305 MK2 brand new. No one should be complaining about hifi being too expensive.

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Or really complaining about anything that is unnecessary being too expensive. When I was a sophomore in high school and realized I wanted to live a good life and thought "hey I should probably not be ok with Bs anc Cs and try and actually make something of myself" which ended up sacrificing my 20s to be able to afford all sorts of good stuff. People don't actually want to put in the work these days, it's manifestation BS (greatest scam of the 21st century) and entitlement.
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Hifi isn’t necessary?
 
Verig said:
It can be but it goes sometimes overboard. I've noticed ASR has very bad reputation in certain places. Talking about snake oil cables etc. is fine but directly offending people who buy expensive hifi does not go down too well.
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Being offensive is not good. But people also tend not to accept opinions that put their expensive gear in a less than stellar perspective. Everybody tends to be rather in denial, nobody wants to look like the fool who overpaid.
 
I don't know that a series of conversations with owners of expensive gear, especially things like very high-priced interconnects and speaker cables, is going to be a great indicator of why they actually bought that gear. I think of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle as an apt metaphor: the act of taking a measurement - in this case, asking people about why they bought that gear - has an impact on the result. In many cases - not all for sure, but many and possibly most - if the person has any inkling that the asker could be skeptical of claims that $2,000 interconnects produce better sound, they are likely to employ one of the other plausible answers instead: build quality, admiration for the design principle, "why cheap out given how much I've invested in the rest of the system," and so on.

Some or all of those answers might even be true for that person - but IMHO there's a very good chance that "I hear a sound quality improvement" is also true for them, and that is the answer they are most likely to omit when directly asked about why they spent that much on that gear.

So there's a bit of an impasse I think. Some folks feel like owners of very expensive gear are being unfairly characterized, creating an inaccurate picture of what's really going on. And conversely, other folks feel that if you ask those owners directly and simply take their word for whatever they say, then the claimed sound quality benefits of such gear will magically and misleadingly recede as a cited reason for purchase and ownership, also creating an inaccurate picture of what's really going on.
 
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Purité Audio said:
If you have paid a great deal of money for a component and you read that it doesn’t offer any sonic improvement you are bound to be vexed.
Their anger should be directed at the manufacturer for selling them an expensive crock but of course it never is.
Keith
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People are repeatedly told not to shoot the messenger throughout their lives, and still end up doing it anyway... human nature is truly barely within shouting distance of rationality.
 
dguillor said:
I think that there’s a level in between top brands and the bottom brands that provides outstanding value. Audiophonics amps with Hypex or Purifi modules comes to mind. Some very inexpensive gear has flawless performance. Like the Wiim Ultra. And the Wiim mini and Pro are better than most of us can Hear for a very small amount of money. The advances in those are due to advances in semiconductor technology and electrical engineering. Speakers are a different story. Lots of the cost in in the construction of the cabinet, mainly the cost of materials.
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I agree. There is a sweet spot of cost v performance where you can get most of the performance of top shelf gear for not much more than the price of low fi brands by researching what you purchase. Even with speakers, I've found that brands like Osborn and the Adelaide Speaker Company for example, due to their business models, can produce products that give comparable performance at much lower to much more expensive brands sold through the usual retail channels.
 
asteroth said:
In my opinion, everything is getting more expensive nowadays without audio discernible improvements and the public isn't doing enough to stop this trend.
I think that for speakers especially there should be more initiative, otherwise even the budget manufacturers will increase the prices up, just as these expensive manufacturers:
https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/dynaudio-confidence-20-loudspeaker/ - 13000$/pair
Imagine the impact of multiple blind-tests using a 300-500$ bookshelf speakers and some EQ to match the sound of the Dynaudio and not being able to distinguish them or getting a difference that doesn't justify the extra money.
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Hi i think these blind tests would open a can of worms 13k a pair place them out of most wallets anyway
asteroth said:
For amplifiers and DACs the blind test comparison should be easier since they're supposed to color the sound less than speakers.
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actually someone has already done something of the kind
same speakers different components upstream The result is shocking
test1223 said:
Doing more blind test is a very good thing!

But there are plenty of difficulties which you might not have though of.

First: You will hear differences in a blind test with speakers. They might be smaller than most people think but there are differences. So it is much more subjective to argue against any more expensive things if differences can be detected.

Second: There is no a clear goal how a perfect speaker should measure. Constant DI, raising DI or even some small wiggles in the DI due to typical room acoustics, stereo related errors or interaction with the head related transfer functions. There is not one single clear goal how a perfect speaker should measure.

Third: There are some speakers which doesn't offer a good price performance ratio or are even bad. But very good speaker have to be expensive. A solid enclosure which can deliver deep bass is heavy and therefore expensive. A good pair match is also expensive. Very low none linear distortion is also expensive. An exotic design which sounds and measures different and good can be very expensive.

For example there are very big horn speakers like the Acapella Audio Arts or the Biggest Backes and Müller or several other speakers. They cost like a few hundreds of thousands. But they also offer an objectively very good performance. With some unique objectively good parameters like beaming in the low frequencies, very high spl with low distortion. No other less expensive speakers offer that. You will easily hear the difference compared with a normal speakers in a blind test.
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are you sure of that ? i have the feeling that some of the best PA speakers would put some high end speakers on their knees
at a fraction of their cost 1/10 ? more ?
 
gino1961 said:
are you sure of that ? i have the feeling that some of the best PA speakers would put some high end speakers on their knees
at a fraction of their cost 1/10 ? more ?
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I have gone with all PA speakers. After all, the sound at well calibrated shows is often amazing, particularly for the human voice.

Unfortunately, the premium PA speakers are in the same price point as premium hifi speakers. You do get amplification and durability and repairability though.

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GXAlan said:
I have gone with all PA speakers. After all, the sound at well calibrated shows is often amazing, particularly for the human voice.

Unfortunately, the premium PA speakers are in the same price point as premium hifi speakers. You do get amplification and durability and repairability though.

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View attachment 398880
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Hi thank you for the very kind and valuable advice
for high end prices i am reading
a two-way stand-mount model that sells for $100,000 per pair
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i have seen big high end towers asking +500k/pair
are Meyer sound speakers expensive the same ? for same FR, SPL and distortion of course
i doubt
there is a guy in Italy who has started a personal crusade
He will make a show with some PA speakers from EV challenging big brands
No high end brand has accepted the challenge
 
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Barney O'Hara said:
We might as well do blind tests, we walk into audio stores deaf and dumb to begin with. If you want quality at a fair price, don't buy anything until they buckle.
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Being a person with 9 years experience selling audio gear before I became a electronic tech I can tell you how to grind on prices. Go in, select your gear and take your time doing that. Then walk out and see what happens. Return if required and do it again with the same salesperson... then make a offer or wait for a sales pitch regarding, "If I gave you a deal would you buy today?"
 
Some people obsessing over +1dB filter if it crosses certain Q. Blind tests are definitively show us how blind we are in hearing so they might be useful for those with golden elf ears. I have 15 old amps with 80 SINAD, and can't really find excuse to change them as could not recognise the difference (for the most part) between the better amps even in open-eye test. There is a difference between what REW shows and what we can hear.

But that again, I might be blessed with the hearing that is sub-par, which I am grateful of. Having to obsess over +1dB must be a difficult life, if any.
 
Oddball said:
Some people obsessing over +1dB filter if it crosses certain Q. Blind tests are definitively show us how blind we are in hearing so they might be useful for those with golden elf ears. I have 15 old amps with 80 SINAD, and can't really find excuse to change them as could not recognise the difference (for the most part) between the better amps even in open-eye test. There is a difference between what REW shows and what we can hear.

But that again, I might be blessed with the hearing that is sub-par, which I am grateful of. Having to obsess over +1dB must be a difficult life, if any.
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If one is going to all the effort to mic and analyze the frequency response then 1dB is not far fetched. Might as well do it right and make the best of the tools at hand.
 
Doodski said:
If one is going to all the effort to mic and analyze the frequency response then 1dB is not far fetched. Might as well do it right and make the best of the tools at hand.
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I praise the concept as well as even ears able to grasp it. With my ears, gear and room, this is nothing but a rounding error.
 
Doodski said:
If one is going to all the effort to mic and analyze the frequency response then 1dB is not far fetched. Might as well do it right and make the best of the tools at hand.
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BTW which mic you think could be so accurate?
 
Oddball said:
I praise the concept as well as even ears able to grasp it. With my ears, gear and room, this is nothing but a rounding error.
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Yes, that makes sense for some and for others they want every little bit of performance they can muster from their gear. Myself I adjust the PEQ by ear when using my headphones etc.
 
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