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Trinnov Altitude 16 Review (AV Processor)

abdo123

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If you see their exaggerated specs on their website no one is mentioning the fact that what you tested is way below these published specs. This in effect amounts to false advertising and is very misleading. Very much false advertising. If you bought this piece of "equipment" I would think you have grounds for a refund seeing as though the measured parameters here are woefully below what you think you were getting. In effect just another company selling substandard and overpriced junk and hoping that no one ever finds out. Another shameful episode in companies advertising one thing and delivering another. A fool and his money are soon parted. 20dB difference in SINAD? Are you serious.

So its with a heavy heart that once again I commend Amir for bringing this to our attention but I'm very disappointed in the fact that this has been entirely missed and you gave this your recommendation.

Perhaps you really should have tested both of them to see what if any improvements have been made.

SHAME ON YOU TRINNOV. SHAME SHAME SHAME

https://www.trinnov.com/en/products/altitude16/#Specifications

Are you Okay? The Trinnov specs says that they’re A-weighted.

Amir’s measurements don’t use that, and as a result, they are not completely reflective of human perception of sound.

Realistically this processor is as silent as all the DACs in the blue category.
 

Tranquility Bass

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Are you Okay? The Trinnov specs says that they’re A-weighted.

Amir’s measurements don’t use that, and as a result, they are not completely reflective of human perception of sound.

Realistically this processor is as silent as all the DACs in the blue category.

A-weighting would only account for a few dB difference not 20 dB !!
 

DonH56

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A-weighting would only account for a few dB difference not 20 dB !!

Really depends upon the amp... Benchmark specs only 2 dB difference between A-weighted and unweighted, but a less-stellar consumer unit, the class D Primare A35.2, has SNR 52.6 dB unweighted wideband, 73 dB restricted to the audio band, and 76 dB A-weighted. That said, I am not curious enough to spend hours searching, but my memory is that A-weighting usually does only buy 3~6 dB or so and not 10+ dB unless there is some other issue, like excessive power line or rectifier noise, or an ultrasonic spike. But 10 dB is about what I am seeing and is within range (albeit high) of what I have seen before.

I have a vague memory of Trinnov getting called out on their SNR during one of their webinars and saying that was the spec for the DAC boards and to expect more like 100~110 dB in a typical installation, but obviously (a) the specs are not clear and/or wrong on the web, and (b) they should post the actual measured data rather than relying on the raw DAC specs or whatever.
 

Bulldogger

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Yes the CB V is available/upgrades are being offered now. On video 4K is supported but it is video bypass anyways. Latest Dirac versions and Auro3D is a work in progress- but given their meager resources-I am impressed that they continued to slog it out to bring it to current specs - slow but steady
Meager resouces? I'm not sure what you mean? ATI/Theta I believe is the most well funded of the AV processors. ATI bought Datasat a few years back. They have those engineers as well as the existing Theta engineering. I think Morris Kessler, ATI owner's Ferrari collections is worth more than Trinnov. Seriously, he's a billionaire that owns multiple audio brands and manufactures many of these brands.

The Xtreme D-3 dacs are are only a couple of years old. I"m told that Theta spent quite a lot to develop them. Where Trinnov may be the goliath on the software side, Theta is on the hardware side. There is nothing close to the specs of the Xtreme D-3 dacs SNR.
 
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Kishore

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Hi- I am looking at total HW+SW end deliverable on Casablanca compared to other big boys- and resources needed to churn that. Morris owning cars or brands is not relevant for this discussion.
 

Bulldogger

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Hi- I am looking at total HW+SW end deliverable on Casablanca compared to other big boys- and resources needed to churn that. Morris owning cars or brands is not relevant for this discussion.
Ok. Theta is running Dirac live 2.3 I think while waiting for for the 3.xx version to work out bass management bugs. Hardware is running the lastest TI chips, APM-datasheet-2nd-Gen-Rev5.pdf (netsolhost.com) . Only thing not yet released it Auro 3-D which is currently being worked out. Think testing is on 3rd firmware revision right now. Yeah, that Morris Kessler could buy Trinnov with the wink of an eye, is relevant to me. I mean, they have the resources to do whatever they want.
 
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sondans

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I actually have a JBL SDP-75 and when I got mine they were in the process of updating the manual. Like many other projects, it was disrupted by COVID, but it is in the current version. Note that there are step-by-step "manual" setup instructions but the semi-automated Wizard process was new. My understanding is that the Wizard was fairly new at the time and to that point they had relied on dealers to set them up for their customers. Most of them went into high-end custom installations and, again my understanding, much of their business was commercial theaters and such. They decided to make it more consumer-oriented and the Wizard was a player in making it more user-friendly.

But, again my understanding, yes they do expect the dealer to come out to install and do a basic set-up for you. At this price point I would hope so! Many years ago, system installation and setup was a pretty standard service provided by dealers, and was part of my job at several dealers, so the model for me was a refreshing step back to full-service dealers. It is not meant to be a "sell and walk out with it" product.

There are advanced calibrator services with a few good people who will come out and do a very complete calibration and set up. These folks (I only know three here in the US but there are probably more) are experts in setting up and using the processor, essentially consultants, with commensurate cost. I am planning to work with one of them but remotely rather than on-site, just haven't made the connection yet (we had a near miss a month or so ago, but then some personal issues hit hard and I shelved the project for now).

The Revel dealer where I am getting my speakers thinks he may be able to get a 16 channel JBL SDP-75 at price close to what I can buy the Altitude 16. It's my understanding that the JBL can process 24/192 vs Altitude 16 at 24/96. How much, if any practical value might that be? My quick research on the subject leads me to believe it may have value if downstream processing follows but not that much in the finished product. Are there any other pros/cons of JBL vs Altitude 16. Revel dealer has never sold/installed any but is considering purchasing one. This would make direct support from JBL even more important.
 

sondans

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If you see their exaggerated specs on their website no one is mentioning the fact that what you tested is way below these published specs. This in effect amounts to false advertising and is very misleading. Very much false advertising. If you bought this piece of "equipment" I would think you have grounds for a refund seeing as though the measured parameters here are woefully below what you think you were getting. In effect just another company selling substandard and overpriced junk and hoping that no one ever finds out. Another shameful episode in companies advertising one thing and delivering another. A fool and his money are soon parted. 20dB difference in SINAD? Are you serious.

So its with a heavy heart that once again I commend Amir for bringing this to our attention but I'm very disappointed in the fact that this has been entirely missed and you gave this your recommendation.

Perhaps you really should have tested both of them to see what if any improvements have been made.

SHAME ON YOU TRINNOV. SHAME SHAME SHAME

https://www.trinnov.com/en/products/altitude16/#Specifications
I would appreciate your input. I have spent a fair amount of time looking at processors and am close to making a decision to buy the Altitude 16; however, I am still open to other options? I'd like to buy something that gives me Roon Ready mc music streaming, av processing, excellent room correction, ability to program an "optimized dialogue" mode for movies that I can access "on the fly", long term reliability, and simple/bug free day to day to day operation. The Altitude 16 is the only thing I know about that meets those needs for a single room/speaker/amp system. The high initial cost of Altitude 16 and time/cost to set up and maintain calibration are of concern; SINAD of 120 vs 100 would be nice but is not even on my radar screen at the moment. Are you aware of any other options I should consider that meet my needs?
 
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Dimifoot

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get a 16 channel JBL SDP-75 at price close to what I can buy the Altitude 16
The SDP-75 doesn’t have the 3D remapping. If this is not important for you, then definitely get the JBL if the price is close.
 

mant

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I would appreciate your input. I have spent a fair amount of time looking at processors and am close to making a decision to buy the Altitude 16; however, I am still open to other options? I'd like to buy something that gives me Roon Ready mc music streaming, av processing, excellent room correction, ability to program an "optimized dialogue" mode for movies that I can access "on the fly", long term reliability, and simple/bug free day to day to day operation. The Altitude 16 is the only thing I know about that meets those needs for a single room/speaker/amp system. The high initial cost of Altitude 16 and time/cost to set up and maintain calibration are of concern; SINAD of 120 vs 100 would be nice but is not even on my radar screen at the moment. Are you aware of any other options I should consider that meet my needs?
You should take a look at the StormAudio and definitely listen to it, in terms of reliability, Storm sets new standards.
 

Dimifoot

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So in terms of actually being able to map your speaker setup accurately, is Trinnov the only AVR/AVP that does this?
Yes
 

DonH56

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So in terms of actually being able to map your speaker setup accurately, is Trinnov the only AVR/AVP that does this?

Disclaimer: I am not an expert on JBL/Trinnov processors.

Depends on what you mean by "setup" and "accurately". The JBL/Trinnov units use a special multi-element microphone to detect the position of your speakers in 3D, vs. measuring just distance from the mic. You get a display of where in space (distance, angle, height) each of your speakers are sitting, with ideal positions indicated for the format selected (Atmos in my case). They are the only units I know about that can do that, though there may be others. Both Trinnov and the rebadged and tweaked JBL units have that capability.

The JBL version does not include Trinnov's remapping capability, mainly because some key players at JBL/Harman argued against it AFAIK. Hand-wavingly, the remapping ability lets the unit "synthesize" a "virtual" speaker at a place among or between other physical speakers in your layout. This could be useful if you have an Atmos layout and want to listen to Auros recordings with "proper" speaker positions, or if you cannot place a speaker where it should be. For example, if you had to place a surround speaker forward or behind the recommended Dolby placement, remapping could create a virtual surround speaker at the "perfect" spot but by mixing signals appropriately from the front and rear speakers.

I decided I could live without that since I am OK with my speaker positions even though they are a little off the ideal Dolby speaker map. There is a pretty wide range for the positions and, even in my very imperfect room, I am pretty close. The con I have heard is that the remapping works best for a small listening area and in larger rooms. I do not know since I have not heard it (and do not have it since I have a JBL version). For certain situations and listeners it could be a big plus, but I (in my very biased opinion) suspect it is not used by the majority of owners.

The JBL versions also do not have separate user (manual) PEQ. This is in addition to all the filters in the Optimizer and again something I felt I could live without. Of the calibrators to whom I spoke, one felt that was a major shortcoming, whilst the other seemed to think it more "meh" since it is sort of sprinkles on the icing of a very big cake. Instead of the user PEQ, the JBL version comes preloaded with fixed PEQ (they changed the name to AEQ) settings for a variety of Revel and JBL speakers using their measured data. I thought that was kind of cool, but again is sort of layered on top of the basic (and very extensive) filter structures already there, so I didn't feel it a big deal either way. It is sort of like adding an EQ that helps correct the speakers' response before the room correction SW. In the end, the Optimizer lets you enter your own curves to whatever you feel appropriate.

I think there are a couple of other minor differences but don't recall them now. Some of the differences are less now compared to when I purchased as JBL and Trinnov have been working together so the platforms are merging.

HTH - Don
 

zorax2

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The Revel dealer where I am getting my speakers thinks he may be able to get a 16 channel JBL SDP-75 at price close to what I can buy the Altitude 16. It's my understanding that the JBL can process 24/192 vs Altitude 16 at 24/96. How much, if any practical value might that be? My quick research on the subject leads me to believe it may have value if downstream processing follows but not that much in the finished product. Are there any other pros/cons of JBL vs Altitude 16. Revel dealer has never sold/installed any but is considering purchasing one. This would make direct support from JBL even more important.

I had a similar opportunity with a JBL SDP-75 (B-stock???) in terms of pricing. IIRC, I think you had to buy the additional CODECs like the Altitude 32 series. If the CODECs are included, it may be worth considering. I wonder if Trinnov would give you the same tech support or if you would have to go through JBL first? If you aren't going to go beyond 16 channels, I'd lean toward the Altitude 16.
 

DonH56

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When I got mine the JBL unit was significantly lower in cost (but not "cheap" by any means) partly due to the additional codecs included. That is changing, if not already changed, as they merge their option and pricing structure. I was told they would be the same price and have almost the same features by this year, I think, but COVID...

I did purchase a B-stock unit which saved even more but availability of those can be sparse.

JBL support comes from JBL, though they will talk with Trinnov as needed, and you may end up dealing directly with Trinnov at times. The webinars and additional videos from Trinnov virtually all apply to the JBL units as well. My understanding, which may be wrong, is that the upcoming video board upgrade will be through Trinnov though I have gotten mixed feedback on whether I would send it to JBL or Trinnov if I go that route.
 

sondans

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The SDP-75 doesn’t have the 3D remapping. If this is not important for you, then definitely get the JBL if the price is close.
Putting aside the 3D remapping for the moment, what are the reason(s) for your JBL recommendation if price is close?
Thank you!
 
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