Trinnov 8m 8 Channel Amplifier Review

[howard416]

The power inlet of this device is not the normal chamfered C14 type (the kettle socket that exists on almost every device). It is the higher power rectangular C20 type. C14 is rated at 10A by IEC, where as C20 is rated at 16A. In US, UL rates C19 at 20A when used with 12 AWG wire. There is no separate 20A plug.

IEC 60320 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Yes, but the other end is a NEMA plug.

EDIT: I see maybe you were replying to Don's post?

 

[sarumbear]

Yes, but the other end is a NEMA plug.

EDIT: I see maybe you were replying to Don's post?

I do not understand your post. As it was tested in US, naturally it would use a NEMA plug.

 

[howard416]

I do not understand your post. As it was tested in US, naturally it would use a NEMA plug.

At risk of a circular discussion - the other end is a 5-15P. Which I believe is not rated for 20 A, ever, even if one had a 20 amp circuit and wall receptacle to plug into. Would it matter in practice? Maybe, maybe not.

 

[sarumbear]

At risk of a circular discussion - the other end is a 5-15P. Which I believe is not rated for 20 A, ever, even if one had a 20 amp circuit and wall receptacle to plug into. Would it matter in practice? Maybe, maybe not.

Why can't the cable use a 20A NEMA plug at the other end? NEMA sockets can support up to 50A at 125V.

NEMA connector - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[howard416]

Why can't the cable use a 20A NEMA plug at the other end?[/URL]

It can. But you'd have to supply your own cable with 20 A-capable connectors on both ends.

I really don't want to continue this conversation anymore, I think we are both thinking the same thing.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

I dunno. Terribly expensive for a RadioShack Heathkit. Mate a grossly exaggerated power supply with mail order Class D amps? I know, must be nearly 10 grand for "implementation."

 

[IamJF]

The voltage gain is too low and system gain structure issues would ensue in many cases.

You get ISSUES with to high gain. You can't use the full power with to low gain.
It's very welcome to have more reasonable power amp gain here!

(4Vrms seems standard for symmetrical outputs, professional equipment has even more. Full power for 2 channels at 4,7Vrms, it has less power with more channels driven. Where's the problem?)

 

[mdsimon2]

Because many line devices nowadays are 2 volts RMS output. With 19db gain, you now have an amplifier limited to 8.9 volts RMS (10 watt equivalent) output.

You might want to check your math, 19 dB gain is 10^(19/20) = 8.9X gain. Therefore, with 2 V input you are looking at 2 x 8.9 = 17.8 V at the amplifier output (40 W into 8 ohm, 80 W into 4 ohm).

Although in general I agree with your assessment and I think 19 dB gain is too low even if you have 4 V into the amplifier unless it is a really low power amplifier. IMO having line voltage 6 dB above amplifier input sensitivity is a really nice thing for flexibility with low level recordings.

Michael

 

[IamJF]

You might want to check your math, 19 dB gain is 10^(19/20) = 8.9X gain. Therefore, with 2 V input you are looking at 2 x 8.9 = 17.8 V at the amplifier output (40 W into 8 ohm, 80 W into 4 ohm).

Although in general I agree with your assessment and I think 19 dB gain is too low even if you have 4 V into the amplifier unless it is a really low power amplifier. IMO having line voltage 6 dB above amplifier input sensitivity is a really nice thing for flexibility with low level recordings.

You lost 6dB of Signal/Noise with your idea. Like that? Just turn your knob with a low level recording.

Gain staging is a pretty simple math exercise. It's not about feeling nice about something, it's an optimization of noise and clipping of the whole signal chain. HiFi is notorious bad in this to get the customer the feeling "wow this system must be loud, I only have my level at 1/3" - but it is already clipping at 2/5 and wastes a LOT of noise performance!

OK - keep it simple. Look at these. Just the right amplification of the power amp would gain 12dB dynamic range! And that's exactly what very often happens.

Trinnov understood that. They did the right thing.

 

[IamJF]

Quick search about output voltages of AV processors.
McIntosh - 13V (17VSubwoofer) (totally useless, classic HiFi thinking. S/N is 96dB(A))
Marantz - 2,4V
Arcam - 5V
Yamaha - 4V, Sub 6,5V

couldn't find the Storm Audio Spec quickly.

So the more professional XLR outputs fit nicely. 4V would be 317W at 4R, 5V already 495W (to much).

 

[Dj7675]

StormAudio…

 

[IamJF]

StormAudio…

So StormAudio puts out up to 9V - so this power amp has way to much gain!
As these Preamps are the limiting noise factor you would waste significant S/N with a Hypex power amp and wrong gain staging.

 

[mdsimon2]

You lost 6dB of Signal/Noise with your idea. Like that? Just turn your knob with a low level recording.

Gain staging is a pretty simple math exercise. It's not about feeling nice about something, it's an optimization of noise and clipping of the whole signal chain. HiFi is notorious bad in this to get the customer the feeling "wow this system must be loud, I only have my level at 1/3" - but it is already clipping at 2/5 and wastes a LOT of noise performance!

OK - keep it simple. Look at these. Just the right amplification of the power amp would gain 12dB dynamic range! And that's exactly what very often happens.
View attachment 299975View attachment 299976

Trinnov understood that. They did the right thing.

Lost 6 dB SNR compared to what? I look at noise performance from a system perspective (DAC + amplifier), not just the DAC output.

I use amplifiers with 25.6 dB gain (Hypex NC252MP) and have less than 100 uV residual noise (unweighted, 20-20K) at my amplifier output. This level of noise is completely inaudible with the typical sensitivity drivers I use. Would noise be reduced if I used a 19 dB gain amplifier? Sure, I certainly would be multiplying the DAC noise less but it is not going to make an audible difference from a noise perspective.

My DAC is an Okto dac8 pro with 4 V output which means I have the potential to clip the amplifier output at volume positions above -8 dB. My typical listening position is -12 to -20 dB BUT I do enjoy the ability to compensate for lower level recordings by using volume positions above -8 dB. When I previously used a DAC with 2 V output I would occasionally want more output at max volume (0 dB) on lower level recordings. You say turn the knob up, in a system without an analog preamp what knob gets me above a 0 dB volume position? I certainly could use DSP to boost the output level but this is much less convenient than just turning the DAC knob up on a DAC with a little extra signal level to play with. Not to mention that leaving a permanent DSP boost would certainly result in digital clipping with higher level recordings.

I understand that others may have other priorities depending on noise sensitivity and driver selection, but for me residual noise at the amplifier output less than 150 uV and DAC output level 6 dB above input sensitivity is the sweet spot in terms of noise performance and output level flexibility.

Michael

 

[Dougey_Jones]

I run 9 bed channels that are all full sized Tower 4 ohm load speakers. So, not necessarily overkill for some setups. I run 12 channels of NC502MP or 500 watts per. Having lots of headroom is vital for hugely dynamic movie soundtracks. I suspect that if you are spending Trinnov level money you probably have big power hungry bed channel speakers. I just saw a home theater that had a crazy high number of ML Electrostatic bed speakers at 11.7.12 configuration. Crazy level agreed. But that is the segment Trinnov is targeting right?

I thought it was a typo at first, but you repeated it multiple times in this post.. What is a "bed" speaker?

 

[AdamG247]

I thought it was a typo at first, but you repeated it multiple times in this post.. What is a "bed" speaker?

Bed Channels are all the bottom floor channels. See below graphic: I am using the Terminology used by Dolby.

Dolby Atmos - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Dougey_Jones]

Bed Channels are all the bottom floor channels. See below graphic: I am using the Terminology used by Dolby.
View attachment 300014

Dolby Atmos - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thank you, I'd never heard the term used before, and a quick Google didn't help much.

 

[Positivevibrations]

One thing we know for sure is the upcoming NCx500 and 502MP will output the same per channel regardless of how many channels driven. Because each amp section has its own built on supply. Combined with a SINAD in the top 5 amps tested here on ASR, why would anyone spend a penny on anything else until they’re released?

 

[Positivevibrations]

The only high amperage power connection system anyone serious would consider is this:

https://www.neutrik.com/en/neutrik/products/powercon/powercon-32-a

 

[Spocko]

While nicely made, based on Amir’s measurements, the Trinnov does not seem worth the price premium to me.

Premium boutique brands are rarely (if ever?) worth the price premium as the target audience rarely buys anything that doesn't have a price premium attached simply because they can.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

Why would anyone spend a penny on anything else until they’re released?

NCx500 is released, I have two Apollon units in the mail.