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Trinnov Altitude 16 Review (AV Processor)
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
I recently got a quote from a dealer for "MSRP of $18,000". This did not include calibration microphone.
When pressed the dealer indicated that a couple hours of set-up time was included in the price.For what these critters cost they ought to send out an installer with it who'll dial in the DSP and all to perfection.
I am not pushing the point but stating it. The Trinnov is a great solution but, for many, it is too expensive. My AV system is my second tier system and there is no video in my main system. Thus, Trinnov is out of place in both, albeit for different reasons.
Great post FrantzM, All our gear comes with it's own learning curve and most with more than one. I'm not sure how "smart" the Trinnov's setup wizard is or what options it has, but I'm sure it has a couple and I'd bet at this cost level, support is easy to acquire.
This is a crazy hobby (I hate to use that word) and the knowledge level involved, along with time needed gets out of hand fast.
I hate to think of the number of friends that have come to me and asked "hey Sal, I just bought this surround sound system and can't make heads or tales of the setup, can you stop by sometime to get me running? you know all about this stuff".
They can't begin to understand the amount of time it will take to read and configure all this new hardware. In a large percentage of them, they just don't what to put in the time needed and now wants ME to do it. Yes I have some background on what it takes and understand the language but that's how I learned, I put in the time and did the homework. They don't want to do that but a pro installer charges too much and they don't want to pay that either.
Sorry, end of my rant
Plus you're far enough up the learning curve that you can configure other gear to do the job at possibly a lower cost and end up with better SQ. But you paid your dues in the industry to have this knowledge.
If you wanted a 150hp big block Harley, you'd would've come to me, before I retired.
@FrantzM "The Trinnov (and similar), for those who can afford it, is one of the best solution out there... It is for those for those who lack the knowledge to extract the maximum from their gear... "
All your comments are reassuring. The dealer that I spoke with was adamant that professional set up (as well as future tweaking) was a necessity to get great performance from this equipment. When I pointed out that I was installing this in a multi-purpose family room where seating as well as other furniture can get moved around occasionally, he assured me that after initial setup is established, future tweaking and calibration can be done remotely online for a relatively low cost (compared in house service). Swallowing the initial cost in one thing, but I really don't want to commit to equipment that is going to cost me a few hundred dollars every time we make a change in the room. I have no background in digital or analog electronics but do have some basic understanding of room acoustics after reading F. Alton Everest, Floyd Toole, and Earl Gedlee. I would expect that initial set up would require some hours of study and trial and error but I'm not interested in a time consuming ongoing maintenance project.
If I wanted a 150hp big block Harley, I would've come to you, long before I retired.If you wanted a 150hp big block Harley, you'd would've come to me, before I retired.
The party line is you need a dealer to set up and configure it, and basic setup is supposed to be included with the sale according to the handful of dealers with whom I have spoken. I did mine more or less on my own but having a dealer walk the process would be helpful. That said, the Wizard makes it reasonable for most users have have run similar room correction programs to get decent sound, and also allows you to re-run it when furniture moves. (I did not know about the Wizard when I got mine, and it was not in the manual; it makes setup much easier!) There are a lot of presets, so you could store some for different room configurations -- and/or have your dealer set them up for you.
Damn, then what the hecks in the manual? In all the lesser Pre-Pro's and AVR's I've experienced, the setup wizard is the first thing they want to cover with you. They must be under the impression that all the dealers will be coming out to do that?
Weird
I agree. If I had a situation similar to yours I would likely just follow your lead. I have read many of your excellent articles on mc music and trust your judgement.
That's very interesting and helps explain the dealer's position on pricing and set up. He was clearly very familiar with the product and the industry in general. I would trust him to do a great job in setting it up. In contrast, I had previously talked with another dealer who clearly had no prior knowledge of the Altitude but was willing to call Trinnov to get information for me. With significant discount from msrp I would consider buying from him but would not want any setup. I would want the dealer doing the setup to have had prior training or experience.
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@TGB
@zorax2
@FrantzM
@DonH56
It is my understanding that the Trinnov can quickly be switched between preset modes that can be tailored by channel and frequency response. Both my wife and I often have trouble understanding dialogue in streamed movies and it would be great to be able to “switch on the fly” to a mode that optimizes dialogue intelligibility. Am I correct in thinking that the Trinnov would allow me to program a center channel only mode (through one or more speakers) and preserve the important dialogue frequencies of 300 to 3300 Hz while cutting back on the lower frequencies that can obscure speech?
@zorax2
@FrantzM
@DonH56
It is my understanding that the Trinnov can quickly be switched between preset modes that can be tailored by channel and frequency response. Both my wife and I often have trouble understanding dialogue in streamed movies and it would be great to be able to “switch on the fly” to a mode that optimizes dialogue intelligibility. Am I correct in thinking that the Trinnov would allow me to program a center channel only mode (through one or more speakers) and preserve the important dialogue frequencies of 300 to 3300 Hz while cutting back on the lower frequencies that can obscure speech?
Yes. It is amazingly flexible, though of course with that flexibility comes the need to spend more time learning the deeper you dig. You could set up two or three presets with different center/vocal frequency emphasis and use the one that best suits the movie.
To be fair, you could shape the EQ curve in Dirac Live and maybe other applications to do something similar.
I actually have a JBL SDP-75 and when I got mine they were in the process of updating the manual. Like many other projects, it was disrupted by COVID, but it is in the current version. Note that there are step-by-step "manual" setup instructions but the semi-automated Wizard process was new. My understanding is that the Wizard was fairly new at the time and to that point they had relied on dealers to set them up for their customers. Most of them went into high-end custom installations and, again my understanding, much of their business was commercial theaters and such. They decided to make it more consumer-oriented and the Wizard was a player in making it more user-friendly.
But, again my understanding, yes they do expect the dealer to come out to install and do a basic set-up for you. At this price point I would hope so! Many years ago, system installation and setup was a pretty standard service provided by dealers, and was part of my job at several dealers, so the model for me was a refreshing step back to full-service dealers. It is not meant to be a "sell and walk out with it" product.
There are advanced calibrator services with a few good people who will come out and do a very complete calibration and set up. These folks (I only know three here in the US but there are probably more) are experts in setting up and using the processor, essentially consultants, with commensurate cost. I am planning to work with one of them but remotely rather than on-site, just haven't made the connection yet (we had a near miss a month or so ago, but then some personal issues hit hard and I shelved the project for now).
That would be my advice based upon hard-won experience. For various reasons I did it on my own, with some help from the dealer and the factory, partly because of COVID restrictions and desire to limit our exposure. It would have been much easier having the dealer set it up and get me started, asked some questions, then I could have tweaked from there. My dealer was great, and hooked me up with factory support as needed, but in hindsight an hour or two with the dealer doing the initial setup would have saved me a lot of time.
I move things around in my AV room quite often as well as try / test new things, may try a BOSS platform, etc. Each time you physically move things around, you technically (if you want the best sound) will need to use the microphone to take new measurements from each of the seating positions you use for calibration. If you want remote calibration, it will fall on you to do all the measurements correctly and allow them to remotely access the Trinnov to tweak as needed.
That being said, it is easy to do the measurements. The biggest challenge is simply "squaring up your microphone" in relationship to your front speakers. The first measurement is critical in that the Trinnov is unique in its ability to map speakers from all angles which has a lot of benefits.
Running the Optimizer is easy in my opinion as is minor tweaking. However, that is coming with experience from running REW (Room Equalizer Wizard), MSO (Multi-Sub Optimizer), the Audyssey App, etc. for many years, with probably more than 100s of hours spent tweaking trying to maximize the performance of my system.
Compare that with doing the Trinnov measurement which take no longer than the REW and other measurements I take and then running the Optimizer. Within 30 minutes or less, I had the best sound I've ever had in my room - BY A LOT - with zero tweaking. I have tweaked since with curves, hotter bass, etc. which I found very easy to do and I love the ability to have all the presets to play with without having to do new measurements to try something new.
If you have someone install locally, watch what they do and ask a lot of questions. Ask how to set your own presets for you to tweak. This basic understanding will help you a lot in terms of just knowing your system and give you the ability to do things yourself or hire someone to do remote calibrations for you.
Thanks Don, it all makes sense now.
IME with the Pioneer app and Marantz/Audyssey apps the setup wizard was the first thing you are forced into on the units initial fire-up.
Cheers
Yah, I have MCACC, Audyssey, YPAO, and Dirac Live AVR/AVP units around the house. The Wizard is a big step toward matching their consumer self-setup capability. Still, I would have the dealer set it up and walk through it first time, especially if you want to dig into it more. Trinnov also has a healthy YouTube channel with a lot of videos explaining operation and features. They are also very responsive and you can reach knowledgeable folk quickly, unlike the endless rounds of tech support I have had to deal with at other companies.
noiseangel
Active Member
If you see their exaggerated specs on their website no one is mentioning the fact that what you tested is way below these published specs. This in effect amounts to false advertising and is very misleading. Very much false advertising. If you bought this piece of "equipment" I would think you have grounds for a refund seeing as though the measured parameters here are woefully below what you think you were getting. In effect just another company selling substandard and overpriced junk and hoping that no one ever finds out. Another shameful episode in companies advertising one thing and delivering another. A fool and his money are soon parted. 20dB difference in SINAD? Are you serious.
So its with a heavy heart that once again I commend Amir for bringing this to our attention but I'm very disappointed in the fact that this has been entirely missed and you gave this your recommendation.
Perhaps you really should have tested both of them to see what if any improvements have been made.
SHAME ON YOU TRINNOV. SHAME SHAME SHAME
https://www.trinnov.com/en/products/altitude16/#Specifications
So its with a heavy heart that once again I commend Amir for bringing this to our attention but I'm very disappointed in the fact that this has been entirely missed and you gave this your recommendation.
Perhaps you really should have tested both of them to see what if any improvements have been made.
SHAME ON YOU TRINNOV. SHAME SHAME SHAME
https://www.trinnov.com/en/products/altitude16/#Specifications
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