Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)

[pkane]

Those are fair points, but I think it would be helpful to add an update to the original review post indicating that this product is no longer recommended (I am assuming this would be the case), so users can quickly get that information as well.

Recommendation is and was based on measured performance of the one unit Amir evaluated, nothing else. If you read more into the review, that's on you.

 

[Astrofly]

Recommendation is and was based on measured performance of the one unit Amir evaluated, nothing else. If you read more into the review, that's on you.

I didn't read anything additional in the review. I was commenting on the findings by members after the review that the component has reliability issues. My assumption from that information is that it wouldn't be a recommendation any longer, like any other product that turned out to be unreliable.

 

[antcollinet]

Those are fair points, but I think it would be helpful to add an update to the original review post indicating that this product is no longer recommended (I am assuming this would be the case), so users can quickly get that information as well.

Amir has answered that repeatedly.

Amir has no data to tell how reliable or not the amp is, except a number of anecdotal reports of failures. Yes there are a lot of those - but without the other side of the coin .... "out of how many sales?" nothing can actually be determined as a fact - is it a significantly higher failure rate than other manufacturers - we don't know. He then might be mischaracterising the amp were he then to state in the formal review that it was unreliable

There is a whole thread here talking about the failures - which if you do a googles search for the "Topping PA5 problems" is the second search result. That will have to be enough.

 

[Astrofly]

Amir has answered that repeatedly.

Amir has no data to tell how reliable or not the amp is, except a number of anecdotal reports of failures. Yes there are a lot of those - but without the other side of the coin .... "out of how many sales?" nothing can actually be determined as a fact - is it a significantly higher failure rate than other manufacturers - we don't know. He then might be mischaracterising the amp were he then to state in the formal review that it was unreliable

There is a whole thread here talking about the failures - which if you do a googles search for the "Topping PA5 problems" is the second search result. That will have to be enough.

Ok, fair point. I concede it would be difficult to know how to make that call, and in doing so it'd need to a subjective one, so I can understand why he'd not do so.

 

[vkvedam]

This caricature of ASR members as caring only about SINAD is rampant on subjective forums. It's a complete (and often deliberate) misunderstanding of measurements and what is being discussed here.

Ignorance is bliss!

 

[hobbyist]

I'm new to this forum but not an audio newbie. I'm not shilling for a company or pushing any point of view. Just interested in reports from people who have been using the new Topping PA5 ii or ii Plus for any period of time. Please tell us what you think. Thanks and cheers.

 

[MAB]

I'm new to this forum but not an audio newbie. I'm not shilling for a company or pushing any point of view. Just interested in reports from people who have been using the new Topping PA5 ii or ii Plus for any period of time. Please tell us what you think. Thanks and cheers.

The PA5ii was only released about 10 days ago. So not likely shipped to anybody.
I am sure it will get reviewed here sooner or later. Since the original was so unreliable, might be good to hold off though.

Poll for Topping PA5 owners only please.

Poll for PA5 owners to report product defects. Discussion for any solutions. I think it would be useful to get a handle on some numbers to estimate just how wide spread the issues are. Addendum: Here is Topping's response to the PA5 issues...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Topping PA5 fix - D01 Module Replacement for everyone

Ive been working on the PA5 for a while now after mine died suddently, like many others https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/poll-for-topping-pa5-owners-only-please.33293/ Most of the PA5 units develop a crackling, hissing or just go a little silent or completely dead on...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The original had good performance, but broke at an alarming rate. I bought one thinking I might use it on a compression driver because of the great perf, but it didn't last more than a few days; noise, big DC offset... Topping probably needs to stop encapsulating their modules in potting compound before they make a reliable amp...

 

[hobbyist]

Thanks. I did contact Topping via email sent to service, asking if the Pa5 glitch has been fixed in the PA5 ii and ii Plus. They responded: "sure, we have made further improvements." That was it. I find they respond to emails in a couple of days, in curt but friendly fashion.

 

[MAB]

Thanks. I did contact Topping via email sent to service, asking if the Pa5 glitch has been fixed in the PA5 ii and ii Plus. They responded: "sure, we have made further improvements." That was it. I find they respond to emails in a couple of days, in curt but friendly fashion.

There's a thread started by John Yang from Topping.

Ask me questions.

Anything related. I answer them as much as I can.

www.audiosciencereview.com

He briefly discusses the PA5 issues. The problem is, they are still encapsulating their amp modules to supposedly protect their IP. Which is really risky
I am pulling for them to succeed, but they do need a reliability makeover. I loved my A30Pro until it broke. The PA5 never gave me a chance to love it it broke so quickly!
I think they are in a tough spot on this.

 

[Astrofly]

There's a thread started by John Yang from Topping.

Ask me questions.

Anything related. I answer them as much as I can.

www.audiosciencereview.com

He briefly discusses the PA5 issues. The problem is, they are still encapsulating their amp modules to supposedly protect their IP. Which is really risky
I am pulling for them to succeed, but they do need a reliability makeover. I loved my A30Pro until it broke. The PA5 never gave me a chance to love it it broke so quickly!
I think they are in a tough spot on this.

So here let me try to clarify what I meant when I said, "It may measure well, but who cares if it breaks within a two year or less time period." A more informative way to stay this would be, "Reliability of a product is an important criterion for me when purchasing a product, so I genuinely don't understand the appeal of a product that measures well but has poor reliability."

For example, I recently bought a nice shirt from a new-to-me clothing site. It was very comfortable, great looking, and the fit was spot on. However, after two washes it literally started falling apart. Similarly some shorts I bought from the same company in that same order had threads coming out after two times being worn. Kudos to the company for being easy with the return, but I won't buy their clothes again. I have a shirt that I bought 15 years ago that's still very comfortable, great looking, and the fit is spot on. Since I can get the same aspects I value from other clothing products with much better reliability, why would I buy from the one that makes clothes that fall apart right away?

Same thing with audio products for me. I don't want to have to buy multiple products, especially because of reliability issues. I did my best to research diligently and hopefully purchase products that will last 30+ years. Reliability really matters to me, so that's the viewpoint I'm coming from when I made my original statement.

I'm not trying to be contentious here. I'm genuinely curious. Since Topping has had these reliability issues, what then is the appeal for their products? Is it the fun of owning a SOTA product that is pushing boundaries, and as such it's acceptable to have a product possibly fail quickly? Is it the idea that one is supporting this burgeoning business and as such is helping support a new and interesting trend in technology? If so, I could see those as being reasons why some people would want a product even if they don't align with my own.

 

[Sokel]

So here let me try to clarify what I meant when I said, "It may measure well, but who cares if it breaks within a two year or less time period." A more informative way to stay this would be, "Reliability of a product is an important criterion for me when purchasing a product, so I genuinely don't understand the appeal of a product that measures well but has poor reliability."

For example, I recently bought a nice shirt from a new-to-me clothing site. It was very comfortable, great looking, and the fit was spot on. However, after two washes it literally started falling apart. Similarly some shorts I bought from the same company in that same order had threads coming out after two times being worn. Kudos to the company for being easy with the return, but I won't buy their clothes again. I have a shirt that I bought 15 years ago that's still very comfortable, great looking, and the fit is spot on. Since I can get the same aspects I value from other clothing products with much better reliability, why would I buy from the one that makes clothes that fall apart right away?

Same thing with audio products for me. I don't want to have to buy multiple products, especially because of reliability issues. I did my best to research diligently and hopefully purchase products that will last 30+ years. Reliability really matters to me, so that's the viewpoint I'm coming from when I made my original statement.

I'm not trying to be contentious here. I'm genuinely curious. Since Topping has had these reliability issues, what then is the appeal for their products? Is it the fun of owning a SOTA product that is pushing boundaries, and as such it's acceptable to have a product possibly fail quickly? Is it the idea that one is supporting this burgeoning business and as such is helping support a new and interesting trend in technology? If so, I could see those as being reasons why some people would want a product even if they don't align with my own.

I'm afraid we have enter a loop similar to the one with phones,people just change them for the newer model.
And price of these companies helps too,specially DACs and such,they are almost disposable price wise and absolutely disposable in case they break as the post cost is not justified,better get a new one and be done.

BUT I'm on the same side as you in terms of reliability,even for stuff like DACs and not necessarily for it's own shake but for the devices dowstream (there are couple of threads about DACs going to max volume for no reason) that's why I'm one of the broken records of ASR repeating to folks to make sure they have take measures again such event.

 

[Astrofly]

I'm afraid we have enter a loop similar to the one with phones,people just change them for the newer model.
And price of these companies helps too,specially DACs and such,they are almost disposable price wise and absolutely disposable in case they break as the post cost is not justified,better get a new one and be done.

BUT I'm on the same side as you in terms of reliability,even for stuff like DACs and not necessarily for it's own shake but for the devices dowstream (there are couple of threads about DACs going to max volume for no reason) that's why I'm one of the broken records of ASR repeating to folks to make sure they have take measures again such event.

Okay, that's helpful to know. Yeah, I have an iPhone, so I'm of course aware of Apple's "planned obsolescence" approach. I currently have an XR model and would keep it until iPhone XXX if possible, but of course they don't allow
such things. So yeah, different outlook in this case I guess. Thanks for your response.

 

[hobbyist]

Thanks for pointing me to that. I find Yang's remarks about reliability concerning - in one case he even tells people to hold off purchasing. I was on the verge of ordering a PA5 ii but won't do that for now. I have five Topping units - three DACs and two headphone amps - and they've all worked fine over many months. I seems that problems come with higher voltage speaker amps? I don't know. But I do know enough to be careful about buying.

 

[john11]

Only being a casual reader of this site sometimes, I find the obsession with SINAD beyond the point of audibility and the promoting of audio products as exemplary simply on that measure to be rather odd. For me, an exemplary audio product will be one that lasts a long time.

Measurements are helpful in finding such a quality product, but I also research the company to see what kind of track record they have for making quality products and what kind of customer support they offer. I also like to see the internal build quality to determine as best I'm able from the limited bit I've learned so far and from seeking out comments and reviews from people with demonstrated expertise that the build quality is indeed high quality.

From what I can tell on ASR, if a product meets a limited set of measurements that's the totality of what it takes to get a rave review. It's no wonder to me then that such products are then being found to be less than high quality products in the long run. The products could or could not have longevity, but when one doesn't even explore the additional criteria that makes audio products, or any products really, high quality andion on it worth the money to purchase, then one takes a greater gamble in being disappointed.

The odd part for me on ASR is that extensibly it's supposed to be a forum for rationality about audio products, and yet many members persist in what I'd call tunnel vision in accounting for only a very narrow measurement criteria, and that seems as irrational as other areas of the audio hobby with just a different focus.

That's a little unfair. There are plenty of reviews, comments and posts from people who have actually purchased the hardware and are giving their opinion from a hands on point of view, without the use of measurement equipment of any kind.

I have never used sinad figures in any of my posts.

The track record of companies is very frequently mentioned on this forum. Topping has been attacked and lost a lot of customer confidence involving the pA5 debacle, aiyima has been praised for good products at excellent prices. There has been a fair and honest approach amongst forum members.

You mention " Rave review " It is okay for a product to get a rave review as happened with the PA5 but then forum members dissect the review and give their opinions on it. The initial review amounts to half a page, the rest of the thread can run for hundred of pages with a ton of differing points of view, clearly showing that forum members are using their own intelligence and certainly do not have " tunnel vision " with Amir's measurements often being attacked, ignored or totally disregarded

 

[Astrofly]

That's a little unfair. There are plenty of reviews, comments and posts from people who have actually purchased the hardware and are giving their opinion from a hands on point of view, without the use of measurement equipment of any kind.

I have never used sinad figures in any of my posts.

The track record of companies is very frequently mentioned on this forum. Topping has been attacked and lost a lot of customer confidence involving the pA5 debacle, aiyima has been praised for good products at excellent prices. There has been a fair and honest approach amongst forum members.

You mention " Rave review " It is okay for a product to get a rave review as happened with the PA5 but then forum members dissect the review and give their opinions on it. The initial review amounts to half a page, the rest of the thread can run for hundred of pages with a ton of differing points of view, clearly showing that forum members are using their own intelligence and certainly do not have " tunnel vision " with Amir's measurements often being attacked, ignored or totally disregarded

Having read more thoroughly I do see that there is a greater diversification of opinions here on the site. While there do seem to be members who highly value very high SINAD as a criterion, seemingly above other criteria and despite sometimes even acknowledging that it is inaudible, there are as you rightly mention many other points of view offering critiques of that point of view as a counterbalance and critiques of companies whose products are unreliable, as well as other valuable and interesting insights. So yes, I acknowledge that I made too broad a statement and in that regard, it was unfair.

 

[vitalii427]

My PA5 started exhibiting a common issue with noise/crackling in one channel after two years. I know there are many such reports here. Before I start digging into this, maybe someone can tell me if it can be repaired? Links appreciated

 

[Urib]

My PA5 started exhibiting a common issue with noise/crackling in one channel after two years. I know there are many such reports here. Before I start digging into this, maybe someone can tell me if it can be repaired? Links appreciated

My SMSL DAC didn't last even a month. Started exhibit problems.

 

[MCH]

My PA5 started exhibiting a common issue with noise/crackling in one channel after two years. I know there are many such reports here. Before I start digging into this, maybe someone can tell me if it can be repaired? Links appreciated

Topping PA5 fix - D01 Module Replacement for everyone

Ive been working on the PA5 for a while now after mine died suddently, like many others https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/poll-for-topping-pa5-owners-only-please.33293/ Most of the PA5 units develop a crackling, hissing or just go a little silent or completely dead on...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Urib]

Shame they have these reliability problems. 25 y.old Yamaha Amp. No issues at all.

 

[gamerpaddy]

Yamaha had massive problems with solder joints in their 90's equipment. im working on a MX-1000 right now that failed catastropically due to this.

@vitalii427 i got a few replacement modules left if you can solder them in yourself or know someone who can. getting the old one out usually takes some care to not rip traces off the board.