Topping PA5 II Stereo Amplifier Review

[anli]

Only cost me about £40 to build

Please share the schematics reference. That cost forces me to guess quiescent current is 100mA, and your loudspeakers have got fantastic sensitivity.

 

[Guddu]

Friends, can anyone explain this output in easy words?

PE: I have gone through Amir's video, but want to confirm if I am getting this right.
Thank you in advance

 

[Ahmonge]

Friends, can anyone explain this output in easy words?

The higher the frequency, the greater the distortion at any power level.

 

[Guddu]

The higher the frequency, the greater the distortion at any power level.

Thanks, but is it an audible concern?

 

[Bleib]

Thanks, but is it an audible concern?

No, unless the speakers are incredibly inefficient and difficult to drive. In that case PA7(+) and many other amps are a better choice anyhow

 

[Guddu]

No, unless the speakers are incredibly inefficient and difficult to drive. In that case PA7(+) and many other amps are a better choice anyhow

Tracking power usage on Aiyima A07, A07 Pro and SMSL AO200, it always keeps to be around 7 - 12 W for my space/listening position with Elac DBR62, based on longer listening sessions.
I think the power it provides is good enough to put it against my current amps, just to see what extra 150$ might add to it.

 

[totti1965]

Friends, can anyone explain this output in easy words?

PE: I have gone through Amir's video, but want to confirm if I am getting this right.
Thank you in advance

ok, the left axis is Total Harmonic Distortion and Noise. E.g. - 60 dB is 0.1 % distortion and noise in the signal. - 70 dB means 0.0316 % and - 80 dB means 0.01 %
Normaly Amir uses a measuring frequency at 1.000 Hz
At 1.000 Hz the amplifier will have exaptionally low distortion.
Amir found out, the these distortions are beginning to increase from 71 Watts on at 4 Ohm and from 53 Watts on at 8 Ohm Speaker load.
This Graph shows the distortions not only at 1.000 Hz but also at 20 Hz; 500 Hz, 5 kHz, 10 KHz and 15 kHz.
It is a pretty normal behaviour from a Class D Amp that the distortions are a little bit higher at very high frequencies.
Some amps lack of good and propper Bass. Not enough "oooomph" - problems also at 20 Hz.
This amplifier is perfect also at very low frequencies and can produce at 20 Hz 83 very very very clean Watts.
If you look close, you can see ALL FREQUENCIES are quite clean - up to 100 Watt where the summn from harmonic distortions and noise reaches 0.1 % (- 60 dB).
A very good result. Much much better than any tube amplifier!!! And you may also can say "It is a 100 Watt Amplifier"
The ear is most sensible between 2000 and 4000 Hz.
So if you are nitpicking you can also say: "It is not 100 % perfect at 10 kHz and 15 kHz."

If you consider to buy the Topping PA5 II, I strongly recommend to wait a little bit:
The Topping PA5 has had some serious durabilty issues. There is also a thread here at audiosciencereview.com
It is not 100 % clear if all issues are solved.

So my recommondation would be - in this not so extrem expensive price range-, to buy either

a) the Fosi V3 in the 48 Volts version, for less than half the price (USD 110,--): https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/fosi-audio-v3-amplifier-review.45757/
The Fosi has much more output power (you can play the speaker nearly 3 dB louder - 3 dB more RESERVE!!!!)
The measuring data (SINAD) from the Fosi are a little bit worse than the Topping, but it seems to have extrem good durabilty because
of a very good thermal management
The minimal load dependency of the frequency response is no issue at all, because most two-way or three-way speakers have tweeters that are pretty constant at about 6 Ohm between 5 kHz and 20 kHz. if your speaker is one of this majority the frequency answer in that range will be within a range of + 0 / + 0.25 dB at 20 kHz, which means PERFECTION. By the way: The Elac DBR 62 has exact 6 Ohms between 7 kHz and 20 kHz!

or

b) the audiophonic MPA-S250NC https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/audiophonics-mpa-s250nc-amp-review.45306/
with much power, very good durabilty, and very, very good measurements.
This amp costs USD 444,--
or other quite identical Hypex amps like this one for USD 575,-- https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...uckeye-nc252mp-stereo-amplifier-review.48196/

Buying the PA5 or the PA5 II is a bit risky.

 

[anli]

Buying the PA5 is a bit risky

Have you any facts if we say about PA5 II (rather than PA5)?

 

[totti1965]

Have you any facts if we say about PA5 II (rather than PA5)?

There is at least practically no visual difference between old and new in the inside. No new design for getting the heat outside! Time will show. Here is the Poll for the old version:

Poll for Topping PA5 owners only please.

Poll for PA5 owners to report product defects. Discussion for any solutions. I think it would be useful to get a handle on some numbers to estimate just how wide spread the issues are. Addendum: Here is Topping's response to the PA5 issues...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[antcollinet]

There is at least practically no visual difference between old and new in the inside. No new design for getting the heat outside! Time will show. Here is the Poll for the old version:

Poll for Topping PA5 owners only please.

Poll for PA5 owners to report product defects. Discussion for any solutions. I think it would be useful to get a handle on some numbers to estimate just how wide spread the issues are. Addendum: Here is Topping's response to the PA5 issues...

www.audiosciencereview.com

There has been a design change in the area the previous model failed.

So we have no information so far on reliability for the II version. Personally I don't feel the design change went far enough - but I also have no evidence that my concerns are warranted.

 

[anli]

There is at least practically no visual difference between old and new in the inside.

I guess, after the known problem this problematic place with it's new incarnation is the most reliable circuit on the planet - Topping engineers are great, and having the object to apply their brain they did something very robust.

 

[Guddu]

Although I don't know how many ASR members bought PA5 II (or+) but don't think anyone has reported similar or any issues with PA5 II.
I want to believe that Topping may have been irresponsible enough not to back their product (first gen PA5) but cannot be foolish to put together an upgrade version of faulty amplifier.
Topping have said in some post that they have learned the lesson and rectified the issue, and no further reports of the issue makes me believe that.
Episode of PA5 easily tells me that Topping cannot provide after sales services to our expectations but they surely have been producing other great products with far less money to the customer than those brands who do back their product up but demand 3 or 4 times money, there is also an exception @Buckeye Amps who have showed great level of commitment even they aren't established yet like others.

Back to the topic, I think I want to take the chance to see what great measurements could provide me.
I have just placed the order on Amazon, so I will have at least 30 days of safety.

 

[VVR]

There is at least practically no visual difference between old and new in the inside. No new design for getting the heat outside! Time will show.

My PA5 II Plus hasn't shown any issues for the month I have it in my system. I keep it on all the time. In a room at about 26-26C, I measured case temperature of about 33.5C in idle.
1 month period is too short for conclusions, but the amp has no obvious issues so far. I have more info in my lengthy post #459.
About the warranty service, at this price, be realistic. I've had issues with similarly priced electronics from "reputable" brands like LG, Samsung, Oppo etc. Below certain price point you can't expect any real service or care, they try to push you away or to confuse you by transferring you across the globe between departments until you eventually give up. So the choice here is risk vs price, imo.
If it was 80k$ amp you owned and a company sells 3 per year, they certainly would know you by name when you call them... Less than 300$ amp is just a commodity sold by the thousands. You are expected to buy the next model in 2-3 years time anyway. I think that Topping is not worse than the others in that respect. If my PA5 lasts 3 years I'll definitely consider it paid off... I don't expect to own it 20 years from now.

 

[Ahmonge]

Thanks, but is it an audible concern?

I don't think so

 

[Martinvb]

My PA5 II Plus hasn't shown any issues for the month I have it in my system. I keep it on all the time. In a room at about 26-26C, I measured case temperature of about 33.5C in idle.
1 month period is too short for conclusions, but the amp has no obvious issues so far. I have more info in my lengthy post #459.
About the warranty service, at this price, be realistic. I've had issues with similarly priced electronics from "reputable" brands like LG, Samsung, Oppo etc. Below certain price point you can't expect any real service or care, they try to push you away or to confuse you by transferring you across the globe between departments until you eventually give up. So the choice here is risk vs price, imo.
If it was 80k$ amp you owned and a company sells 3 per year, they certainly would know you by name when you call them... Less than 300$ amp is just a commodity sold by the thousands. You are expected to buy the next model in 2-3 years time anyway. I think that Topping is not worse than the others in that respect. If my PA5 lasts 3 years I'll definitely consider it paid off... I don't expect to own it 20 years from now.

I think you’re right: if you are in for high performance gear at this price point there always is a customer trade off. On the other hand, Topping also sells much more expensive stuff, aimed more at the high end market. The PA5 may have been an expensive glitch for them, reputation wise. I’m not sure if a reputable audio company can cater for both the low and high end market nowadays, as internet is unforgiving.

 

[VVR]

I think you’re right: if you are in for high performance gear at this price point there always is a customer trade off. On the other hand, Topping also sells much more expensive stuff, aimed more at the high end market.

By the "definition" of hi-end nowadays ($5000+), I don't think Topping even touches on the entry level hi-end... I'm not talking performance of course, because that seems unrelated to the hi-end perception, which is mostly brand, looks and price.
I agree with you that it's difficult for one company to serve both ends of the market at the same time. It requires different mentality in design. I remember how disappointing was for me in the late 90s when under the cover of an Audio Research CD player for 4k was found $200 Philips 721. A magazine at the time caught them on that. Basically, it was the Philips CD player in a fancy box. And I remember how funny Audio Research tried to explain that they improved vibrations in their enclosure and turned the cheap player in a hi-end unit ... And Audio Research was a real company, compared to other "extreme hi-end" crooks.

 

[antcollinet]

By the "definition" of hi-end nowadays ($5000+), I don't think Topping even touches on the entry level hi-end... I'm not talking performance of course, because that seems unrelated to the hi-end perception, which is mostly brand, looks and price.
I agree with you that it's difficult for one company to serve both ends of the market at the same time. It requires different mentality in design. I remember how disappointing was for me in the late 90s when under the cover of an Audio Research CD player for 4k was found $200 Philips 721. A magazine at the time caught them on that. Basically, it was the Philips CD player in a fancy box. And I remember how funny Audio Research tried to explain that they improved vibrations in their enclosure and turned the cheap player in a hi-end unit ... And Audio Research was a real company, compared to other "extreme hi-end" crooks.

The conflation of "High End" with "High Price" is basically all that is wrong with the industry.

Audiophiles no longer search for High Fidelity, they just try to spend more and more money. And the objective of the industry is to help them justify it in their mind.

 

[SMc]

By the "definition" of hi-end nowadays ($5000+), I don't think Topping even touches on the entry level hi-end... I'm not talking performance of course, because that seems unrelated to the hi-end perception, which is mostly brand, looks and price.
I agree with you that it's difficult for one company to serve both ends of the market at the same time. It requires different mentality in design. I remember how disappointing was for me in the late 90s when under the cover of an Audio Research CD player for 4k was found $200 Philips 721. A magazine at the time caught them on that. Basically, it was the Philips CD player in a fancy box. And I remember how funny Audio Research tried to explain that they improved vibrations in their enclosure and turned the cheap player in a hi-end unit ... And Audio Research was a real company, compared to other "extreme hi-end" crooks.

Are you sure you're not mixing up Barclay and Marantz? Another notorious rebadge was the Theta Data that incorporated a Philips universal player.

 

[VVR]

Are you sure you're not mixing up Barclay and Marantz? Another notorious rebadge was the Theta Data that incorporated a Philips universal player.

No. It was Audio Research and Philips. I remember because a friend of mine had the exact same Philips CD player. I've seen other examples after that, but for me personally was the first time when I got the idea that something is not right with the so called hi-end. I follow this industry for very long time. More on the electronic design side, not marketing. I think many companies are great and professional at what they do, but there are others who right now I would even speculate are involved in some money laundering schemes. When my eyeballing estimate comes to 50x cost/msrp margins, I know things are not right and developing and selling a product is not a priority. Not sure this is the case for American companies, but for some European, and especially South and Eastern European, I can bet on that.
Anyway, sorry for the OT rant!

 

[daniboun]

Friends, can anyone explain this output in easy words?


PE: I have gone through Amir's video, but want to confirm if I am getting this right.
Thank you in advance

To complete your proposals, I think it is interesting to understand why Amir uses a 45khz bandwidth instead of a 20khz measurement bandwidth (of human ears)
The 45khz measurement bandwidth has a significant impact vs the 20khz one. Amirm uses a 45kHz measurement bandwidth so that for measurement frequencies above 6.67kHz the effect of the 2nd and 3rd harmonics aren't neutralised by a 20kHz low pass filter.
Measurements in term of Thd+n @1kHz for instance in a 45khz bandwidth will be less good (not to say different) than the same measurements made in a 20khz bandwidth.