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Topping LA90 Review (Integrated Amplifier)

Rate this amplifier:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 35 4.3%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 50 6.2%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 195 24.2%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 525 65.2%

  • Total voters
    805

SashaR

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it has such detailed sound that I have never heard from any other speakers.
I'm extremely interested in being able to reproduce exactly the same sound that is inside the flac - no clearer, no brighter, no more bass. Thanks for the advice about the speakers - it's too late: I won't change the VELA 408 I just purchased :). The only problem is that I’m not sure that in my situation (13 m2) these speakers can, using the LA90, correctly reproduce sound at a volume less than 70 dB.
 

Sir Sanders Zingmore

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Hello,
I was allowed to compare the yba pasion ia350a amplifier with my LA90 - in my apartment. How can you explain that the unprecedentedly magnificent LA90 sounds worse than an amplifier with only 95 dB signal-to-noise ratio (I couldn’t find any other measurements)??? I compared at all volume levels available on the LA90, including in mono configuration. If there is no distortion, if we have a direct wire, then how can we explain that it sounds worse (there are no details, especially in the highs - but I’m only talking about what is obviously below 12 kHz).
Thanks for explanation!
I think you just prefer the (deliberately) non-flat frequency response of the YBA
IMG_2364.jpeg


It would be interesting to apply that curve to your LA90 (if you can) and then compare.
 

Bleib

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I think you just prefer the (deliberately) non-flat frequency response of the YBA
View attachment 329200

It would be interesting to apply that curve to your LA90 (if you can) and then compare.
Wow, that's pretty awful
 

nagster

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Big failure? Or is it a scam?
 

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SashaR

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I think you just prefer the (deliberately) non-flat frequency response of the YBA
View attachment 329200

It would be interesting to apply that curve to your LA90 (if you can) and then compare.
At the moment, I am the happy owner of the best amplifier to date (LA90), and living in fear of the possible failure of this excellent device: I changed the speakers to 4-ohm ones (from 6-ohm ones) and the amplifier became one Celsius degree hotter! Is there an explanation for this phenomenon?

Can anyone tell me how much power the LA90 delivers to the speakers at a volume of 80 dB in LOW gain when the (D90SE) DAC is in DAC mode @ 5 volt, XLR (speakers: 4 ohms, declared sensitivity 88.5 dB. Minimum impedance = 3.6 ohms at 180 Hz)?

Thank you all in advance for your advice and answers!
 

jooe

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This 114 pages long thread on ASR made me want to try it out. Found a second hand one and bought it.

A pair of TS to RCA adapters made it possible to connect a SE dac. Hooked it up to my KEF LS50 Metas and... disappointment.
Even with the volume knob maxed out the sound was anemic and not loud enough. Switched to more sensitive speakers and it was better but still weaker than my Quad 2 tube amplifiers(~10w). I don't have a lot of balanced equipment, mostly tape/r2r/dat -decks. I do have a ZEN CAN that has a 4,4mm pentacon balanced output. I had enough connectors to make a 4,4mm to 2x 3 pin xlr cable. I don´t really know if the balanced output of the ZEN CAN is really any higher than the SE output since it´s only getting SE input. But using the ZEN CANs volume pot and gain switch the LA90(in power amp mode) made the speakers come to life and I could play as loud as I ever wanted.

However, the setup isn´t really that neat...

So basically I need a balanced dac to use the LA90 as I wanted to, maybe I´ll buy one someday.

BUT! I already have to much gear I don't use or really need so I think the wisest thing to do is to get rid of all balanced gear.
I think I´ll be happy with RCAs and 3,5/6,3mm. :) I really don't enjoy spending money on cables an connectors anyway!:facepalm:
 

ajax247

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>>At the moment, I am the happy owner of the best amplifier to date (LA90), and living in fear of the possible failure of this excellent device: I changed the speakers to 4-ohm ones (from 6-ohm ones) and the amplifier became one Celsius degree hotter! Is there an explanation for this phenomenon?

Get a fan! And don't stress.
 

mike70

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quick answer?

With lower impedance the speaker gets more power from the amp ==> more heat (and even more in class AB design)
 

SashaR

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quick answer?

With lower impedance the speaker gets more power from the amp ==> more heat (and even more in class AB design)
Thank you for the answer!
Give me, please, the answer for the second my question, please! Here:

Can anyone tell me how much power the LA90 delivers to the speakers at a volume of 80 dB in LOW gain when the (D90SE) DAC is in DAC mode @ 5 volt, XLR (speakers: 4 ohms, declared sensitivity 88.5 dB. Minimum impedance = 3.6 ohms at 180 Hz)?

Thank you all in advance for your advice and answers!
 

staticV3

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Thank you for the answer!
Give me, please, the answer for the second my question, please! Here:
Which speakers?
Listening distance?
80dB Peak? Or Average? If the latter, what crest factor?
Speakers placed near a wall? Or in the corners of your room?
 

Wirrunna

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I have read the first 15 pages and stopped at the slinging matches and have a couple of questions -
1. What is the idle current or watts drawn at idle ? - standby is stated as 0.5w but idle is not mentioned in the specs.
2. At what power level does the amp go to class AB ?
3. What has been the reliability of the amps ?
4. How hot does the amp get in use?

The L7Audiolab write up showed a heat video that appeared to show the amp stable at about 40 degrees C until it is called upon to go over 5 watts, implying that the amp would operate in class A up to 5 watts.

The local retailers in Oz are discounting the LA90 way below the LA90D price to clear old stock. Tempting as a mid range amp in a tri-amped setup.
 
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john11

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>>At the moment, I am the happy owner of the best amplifier to date (LA90), and living in fear of the possible failure of this excellent device: I changed the speakers to 4-ohm ones (from 6-ohm ones) and the amplifier became one Celsius degree hotter! Is there an explanation for this phenomenon?

Get a fan! And don't stress.
Another problem is the tiny enclosures these amps come in, little room for air flow. Small fans is the way to go.
If you don't need the full output of the amp could drop the psu down a few volts and use higher current. I switched the stock psu of my pa5 II for a linear toroid i built, which has slightly lower voltage with double the current output - Good improvement in sound quality Well worth the mod
 

welwynnick

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Another problem is the tiny enclosures these amps come in, little room for air flow. Small fans is the way to go.
If you don't need the full output of the amp could drop the psu down a few volts and use higher current. I switched the stock psu of my pa5 II for a linear toroid i built, which has slightly lower voltage with double the current output - Good improvement in sound quality Well worth the mod
That's interesting. I've done a lot of PSU upgrades over the years, and MOST of them were successful. How did it sound? What were the differences?
I was wondering something similar about the LA90:
 

peng

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I have read the first 15 pages and stopped at the slinging matches and have a couple of questions -
1. What is the idle current or watts drawn at idle ? - standby is stated as 0.5w but idle is not mentioned in the specs.
I have never seen such specs included in any manufacturer's published specs, but could often be found in their service manuals. If you really need to know, you can try contacting the manufacturer and they may or may not tell you.
2. At what power level does the amp go to class B ?
I would hope, and assuming Topping did their job well, their class AB design should not operate in class B at all, not even at near rated output level. In some cases, probably including the LA90, class AB amps may actually run in class A at lower output level such as at below 1 W or even several Watts, and then run in class AB mode (but never "B") based on the following:

Comparison of the Different Amplifier Classes​

amplifier classes



Then the amplifier classes are always defined as follows:

  • Class A: – The amplifiers single output transistor conducts for the full 360o of the cycle of the input waveform.
  • Class B: – The amplifiers two output transistors only conduct for one-half, that is, 180o of the input waveform.
  • Class AB: – The amplifiers two output transistors conduct somewhere between 180o and 360o of the input waveform.
 

welwynnick

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I would hope, and assuming Topping did their job well, their class AB design should not operate in class B at all, not even at near rated output level. In some cases, probably including the LA90, class AB amps may actually run in class A at lower output level such as at below 1 W or even several Watts, and then run in class AB mode (but never "B") based on the following:
That's a bit of a strange way of looking at it, but it might just be terminology. The point of class AB is that the output operates in class A at small power levels to preserve small signal linearity, then switches to class B when the signal is large enough to switch on the complimentary transistors that are biased off in the quiescent condition. I think that qualifies as class B operation, and helps to keep the dissipation low.
I think what Wirrunna was asking is when does the output stage stop working in class A? Very few audio manufacturers advertise that figure, and those that do make a play of it when their class A operation is relatively high.
One of the tests that Amir did a little while ago was to measure the difference between class A and AB with an amp that offered the choice. I'll see if I can find it. As I recall there was absolutely no measurable advantage with class A. In addition, if you look at the distortion vs power plots for the LA90, there's no great jump in distortion at low power levels, as with most good amps. It suggests that crossover distortion isn't something to worry about.
 

peng

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That's a bit of a strange way of looking at it, but it might just be terminology. The point of class AB is that the output operates in class A at small power levels to preserve small signal linearity, then switches to class B when the signal is large enough to switch on the complimentary transistors that are biased off in the quiescent condition. I think that qualifies as class B operation, and helps to keep the dissipation low.

That is incorrect, strictly speaking may be... I posted the graph, you can see clearly the difference between class B and class AB. I do see your point about the "signal is large enough to switch on....." but it is a moot point because a) no matter how large the signal is, it always cross 0 right, and no matter how small the signal is, including 0 V, in class AB, there is always bias current that is high enough to make sure the transistor will conduct even when the signal just starts to cross 0.

Having said that, I would agree with you that for large signal excursions, only one transistor is active for each half of the waveform, acting like a class B amplifier but that's the confusing part by nature, because it is about the "excursions" and I supposed that's what you referred to, but that does not really qualifies it as class B operation because for class B, the output transistors only conduct during half (180 degrees) of the signal waveform, period! Whereas in class AB, the bias will be high enough to ensure there is always an overlapping conduction between both output transistors in the push pull configuration, that is the conduction angle is always >180 degrees, not just = 180 degrees.
There is a difference between just 180 degrees (class B), and between 180 and 360 degrees).

I have seen forum posters (even manufacturers (one that I remember seeing) interpreting class AB the way you do, but it is a misconception, or their own weird way of defining class AB and class B, resulting is creating a term that is misleading, one that we should not help to spread further (unintentionally of course:)).

I think what Wirrunna was asking is when does the output stage stop working in class A? Very few audio manufacturers advertise that figure, and those that do make a play of it when their class A operation is relatively high.
One of the tests that Amir did a little while ago was to measure the difference between class A and AB with an amp that offered the choice. I'll see if I can find it. As I recall there was absolutely no measurable advantage with class A. In addition, if you look at the distortion vs power plots for the LA90, there's no great jump in distortion at low power levels, as with most good amps. It suggests that crossover distortion isn't something to worry about.

That varies with different designs, it could range from virtually never operate in class A, to a large % of rated output. For example, my A21 supposedly would run up to 8 W, 8 ohms in class A, whereas my 4B SST would do about 20-25 W in class A, both were told by the manufacturers. I remember seeing some Emotiva and Passlab class AB amps that claimed to run in class A up to much higher level (in % of rated) than the two I mentioned. So again, it is up to the amp designers, no fix rule.

The rest of it, I generally agree with you.
 
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welwynnick

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I try very hard to avoid spreading mis-information on the internet - there's too much of it already, and some of the well-known resources are guilty of it (ever read the Wikipedia explanation of firmware? Their page on amplifier classes is also pretty questionable) If I'm not sure about something then I say I'm not sure. However, diode and transistor biasing was the first thing I studied at university, and I like to think I never forgot it, having worked in electronic engineering ever since. (Like many round here, I suspect).

I'm struggling to understand, but I think what you're saying is that one of the transistors (lets call it the upper transistor) is always conducting, even when the signal is negative. This is different to class B. I think we need to be clear whether this is reverse biased in voltage or reverse biased in current, because they're different things.
The problem is that the lower transistor is switched off with zero signal, but it does have to switch on for a negative input signal that goes below the bias level, so it certainly does switch. In terms of your graphic, then one of the transistors is conducting over, say 200 degrees of the input waveform, and the other is conducting over 160 degrees.

Edit: Here is that Marantz PM-90 review with several tests showing no difference between class A and class AB operation:

index.php
 
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peng

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I try very hard to avoid spreading mis-information on the internet - there's too much of it already, and some of the well-known resources are guilty of it (ever read the Wikipedia explanation of firmware? Their page on amplifier classes is also pretty questionable) If I'm not sure about something then I say I'm not sure. However, diode and transistor biasing was the first thing I studied at university, and I like to think I never forgot it, having worked in electronic engineering ever since. (Like many round here, I suspect).

I'm struggling to understand, but I think what you're saying is that one of the transistors (lets call it the upper transistor) is always conducting, even when the signal is negative. This is different to class B. I think we need to be clear whether this is reverse biased in voltage or reverse biased in current, because they're different things.
The problem is that the lower transistor is switched off with zero signal, but it does have to switch on for a negative input signal that goes below the bias level, so it certainly does switch. In terms of your graphic, then one of the transistors is conducting over, say 200 degrees of the input waveform, and the other is conducting over 160 degrees.

It is just a little complicated in this whole thing, so I wouldn't call any of those misinformation as such, but rather, just organized confusion that unfortunately do tend to create misconception among hobbyist. In most cases, I wouldn't bother saying anything but in this case, we all know for anyone serious in home hifi music enjoyment, class B is not desirable, not even at high level so I just don't want the OP to worry about something that he doesn't need to.

In order not to diverge too much from the OP's question, I guess we should leave it at this, suffice to say as you alluded to, 200, or even 220 degrees sound good for class AB, but again I don't think there is any fix rule, maybe just rule of thumb.

Since you mentioned university, I actually downloaded the following lecture, years ago when I was searching on this topic, it is a good refresher for people like us who graduated too long ago:

 
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