Topping DX5 Review (DAC & HP Amp)

[OnlyRealWolf]

The DX5 looks great if you only have space for a single-box solution, but for only a bit more, I would consider the E50 + L50 combo. This has, essentially, the same DAC but what I understand to be a more powerful headphone amp with proper balanced output. Depending on your headphone choice, the difference could be beneficial.

Thanks! This is exactly the info I was looking for.

The price difference is fairly negligible between the DX5 and E50/L50 stack, enough so that it makes sense to me to lean towards the stack.

I’m relatively new to exploring most of this stuff, and really appreciate the input and feedback

 

[Zim]

Anyone able to explain what the gain is for the DX5?

On one, it says the gain is 0dB and 12dB, on another 6.7dB and 19dB?

 

[Rottmannash]

"Delivering forth highest SINAD ever measured (out of nearly 400 DACs) is a major accomplishment."
If I'm not mistaken the D90SE and the Gustard X18 score 1 SINAD point higher.

 

[Rottmannash]

Do you think these people are not turning OFF their OLED display and that causes the burn-in? How sensitive are these OLED displays to burn-in? I don't think I have a OLED display @ home and so I have no experience with them.

If you have a Samsung smartphone you probably have an OLED screen. My first Samsung OLED screen had pretty significant burn-in after 1 year or so (Galaxy S8+). My new S20+ supposedly is resistant to burn-in but we'll see.

 

[SHENZHENAUDIO]

@SHENZHENAUDIO could you advise if this new unit has an active DPLL setting for the optical input please? Thanks.


JSmith

It doesn't have the active DPLL setting, thank you.

 

[Metronomy]

Sorry, but you say that this Topping is comparable by class to the Violectric v226 or the Burson Audio conductor 3xp as regards the sonic performance, or are we talking about superior devices? In this I don't mean the beauty of the case and the materials with which it is made but for the electronic content, and for the sound quality. 1400 vs 450 euros / dollars.

 

[jae]

People hating better measuring cheaper products and find these boring must "be having extra cash to spend on good looking expensive boutique products. Audio being an electronics engineering domain is about numbers and measurements. There is no voodo magic which can make poor measuring expensive good looking heavy weight boutique products sound good and boring cheaper better measuring products sound bad. In audio we look for only one trait which is sound quality unlike automobile where one can have many goals like looks, power, space , speed , off roading etc etc.

I don't recall saying a more attractive chassis would change the sound at all. By this logic, you should be more than happy to pay a couple dollars less than MSRP for equipment measuring the same or even -70 dB SINAD or under, held together in a chassis of cardboard and zip ties because it will not change your experience- there is no "voodoo magic" that will give you, as a human, the ability to hear noise or distortion that low over auditory masking and noise floor in virtually any piece of music. That's what science says, confirmed by numbers are measurements. Or are you going to claim the plastic enclosure is better over the cardboard one? How do you know I'm not in conditions with heavy interference and have a practical need for an enclosure that will offer more EM shielding? How do you know my theoretical wife won't give me further hearing loss because of the ugly piece of plastic in the living room, rendering those improvements moot?

Don't conflate the academic or scientific pursuit of optimising circuits with the purposeful practice of engineering, product design, or "audio" in general. People still buy Ferraris to drive them in a school zone. I am more than happy to see and welcome objective performance in products as it encourages engineering excellence. The argument was that -1 SINAD does not "upgrade" a product holistically in any meaningful way, especially if you cannot hear it and especially if does not come with any other practical improvements or value-add in other regards. It costs Topping money and time for engineering and product design hours, money of which is going to be ultimately paid by you, the buyer, when the price goes up for the new model that does not add anything meaningful. If people don't like the look of Topping and buying Topping's competitor products over theirs, they are making less money and thus have less money to put into R&D to give you the even lower SINAD which you covet in future products. Something like a more attractive or "boutique" quality chassis is still a value-add to the product even if you only care about objective performance. Even if you don't buy such products, if someone else does it gives the company an opportunity to capture the market and improve products if that is the demand.

With the level of equipment we have now and assuming a similar price, I can't imagine knowing an engineer that wouldn't sacrifice even multiple dB of SINAD for a higher quality chassis, better knobs/buttons, or a machined chassis any day of the week, unless of course they were ones being paid to optimise for SINAD, or were delusional.

 

[aj625]

I don't recall saying a more attractive chassis would change the sound at all. By this logic, you should be more than happy to pay a couple dollars less than MSRP for equipment measuring the same or even -70 dB SINAD or under, held together in a chassis of cardboard and zip ties because it will not change your experience- there is no "voodoo magic" that will give you, as a human, the ability to hear noise or distortion that low over auditory masking and noise floor in virtually any piece of music. That's what science says, confirmed by numbers are measurements. Or are you going to claim the plastic enclosure is better over the cardboard one? How do you know I'm not in conditions with heavy interference and have a practical need for an enclosure that will offer more EM shielding? How do you know my theoretical wife won't give me further hearing loss because of the ugly piece of plastic in the living room, rendering those improvements moot?

Don't conflate the academic or scientific pursuit of optimising circuits with the purposeful practice of engineering, product design, or "audio" in general. People still buy Ferraris to drive them in a school zone. I am more than happy to see and welcome objective performance in products as it encourages engineering excellence. The argument was that -1 SINAD does not "upgrade" a product holistically in any meaningful way, especially if you cannot hear it and especially if does not come with any other practical improvements or value-add in other regards. It costs Topping money and time for engineering and product design hours, money of which is going to be ultimately paid by you, the buyer, when the price goes up for the new model that does not add anything meaningful. If people don't like the look of Topping and buying Topping's competitor products over theirs, they are making less money and thus have less money to put into R&D to give you the even lower SINAD which you covet in future products. Something like a more attractive or "boutique" quality chassis is still a value-add to the product even if you only care about objective performance. Even if you don't buy such products, if someone else does it gives the company an opportunity to capture the market and improve products if that is the demand.

With the level of equipment we have now and assuming a similar price, I can't imagine knowing an engineer that wouldn't sacrifice even multiple dB of SINAD for a higher quality chassis, better knobs/buttons, or a machined chassis any day of the week, unless of course they were ones being paid to optimise for SINAD, or were delusional.

I have never stopped anybody to buy more expensive poor measuring better looking product. Did I ever ? You better spend your cash wherever you want. If cost was not a criteria then what are these websites for ? Do you buy any product just by a toss of coin ? Why at all you are here ? Why people read and search about products on net ? Why don't they buy just by the first letter of their name ?

 

[alekksander]

I'm in between this (TOPPING DX5 DAC / AMP) but also in this (Topping EX5 MQA)
I want to drive the genelec 8330 but also the hd 650
Which of the two would you suggest ???

The one that looks better to You. They are very close regarding performance.

neither. genelec 8330 is better driven by digital in so there's no audio quality loss due to AD.

It has analog inputs as well. This dac is likely to perform better comparing to internal genelec dac module.

 

[jae]

I have never stopped anybody to buy more expensive poor measuring better looking product. Did I ever ? You better spend your cash wherever you want. If cost was not a criteria then what are these websites for ? Do you buy any product just by a toss of coin ? Why at all you are here ? Why people read and search about products on net ? Why don't they buy just by the first letter of their name ?

My favourite look and feel in combo dac/amp in the last few years is the CMA twelve (https://www.questyle.com/language/en/cma-twelve-en), but it doesn't measure as well as cheaper Chinese products from Topping, so I didn't buy it and was waiting for something better. I don't want to buy a separate DAC/AMP, so I only care about combo units. Topping DX7 Pro came out shortly after, and I would have bought it but it had high output impedance which was a deal breaker since I want it to be able to drive virtually any and all headphones linearly, even though all the other measurements were perfect. I bought a Motu M4 in the mean time because I needed an ADC for my microphones anyway and the unit also measures well as has other features. I heard Questyle was releasing an upgrade to their CMA12 in 2022, the CMA15, which Wolf measured (https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/questyle-cma-fifteen/). That's still not up to the performance I expect for that price so I didn't buy it, knowing full well this is still audibly transparent. Topping EX5/DX5 would be such a marginal upgrade, but then I have to have to replace my MOTU M4 with something that's worse build quality. So not acceptable to me either.

Looking at gear reviewed on ASR and other measurement sites, the most expensive items are rarely the "best" in terms of measurements, usually far from it with few exceptions. But they generally look or feel the best to use, or even some with very practical features (DSP, remotes, loads of inputs/outputs) since that is what the money goes towards. I could never justify spending hundred, thousands, or even tens of thousands on equipment that was not in the top few percentile of objective performance. But that does not mean we cannot have both. I don't plan on replacing my next purchase for a very long time, or ever, so I would rather it not look or feel like a toy!

Maybe Topping will stop neglecting me later this year, or I will just settle for an RME ADI-2-Pro. Maybe I just don't decide to buy anything else because I want to keep reading ASR?

 

[jae]

The one that looks better to You. They are very close regarding performance.

It has analog inputs as well. This dac is likely to perform better comparing to internal genelec dac module.

The analog input to the genelec is converted to digital and then ran through the Genelec DAC again, so all digital to the Genelec is technically the "purest" signal path. Will you notice a difference between the two? Nope.

 

[aj625]

My favourite look and feel in combo dac/amp in the last few years is the CMA twelve (https://www.questyle.com/language/en/cma-twelve-en), but it doesn't measure as well as cheaper Chinese products from Topping, so I didn't buy it and was waiting for something better. I don't want to buy a separate DAC/AMP, so I only care about combo units. Topping DX7 Pro came out shortly after, and I would have bought it but it had high output impedance which was a deal breaker since I want it to be able to drive virtually any and all headphones linearly, even though all the other measurements were perfect. I bought a Motu M4 in the mean time because I needed an ADC for my microphones anyway and the unit also measures well as has other features. I heard Questyle was releasing an upgrade to their CMA12 in 2022, the CMA15, which Wolf measured (https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/questyle-cma-fifteen/). That's still not up to the performance I expect for that price so I didn't buy it, knowing full well this is still audibly transparent. Topping EX5/DX5 would be such a marginal upgrade, but then I have to have to replace my MOTU M4 with something that's worse build quality. So not acceptable to me either.

Looking at gear reviewed on ASR and other measurement sites, the most expensive items are rarely the "best" in terms of measurements, usually far from it with few exceptions. But they generally look or feel the best to use, or even some with very practical features (DSP, remotes, loads of inputs/outputs) since that is what the money goes towards. I could never justify spending hundred, thousands, or even tens of thousands on equipment that was not in the top few percentile of objective performance. But that does not mean we cannot have both. I don't plan on replacing my next purchase for a very long time, or ever, so I would rather it not look or feel like a toy!

Maybe Topping will stop neglecting me later this year, or I will just settle for an RME ADI-2-Pro. Maybe I just don't decide to buy anything else because I want to keep reading ASR?

Exactly. Neither ASR nor anybody can force anyone to buy something. In fact ASR has done a great service for those people who want to buy "poor measuring expensive products" . They simply have to go through the extensive list maintained by ASR and select the one which is most expensive and got headless panther award. Isn't it ?

 

[Robbo99999]

I am simply answering the question, different dacs can produce different soundstage on same speakers/room/setup.

I think you could be right if you compare very poor measuring DACS vs good measuring DACS. Perhaps it's possible that muffling of sound through distortion or lack of clarity could reduce perception of soundstage. I've not tried comparing different DACS eg poor vs good, but I have compared Youtube official recordings of Massive Attack with lossless and there is certainly a loss of soundstage associated with the comparison.....along with loss of clarity. I don't know if there is direct crossover between Youtube / Lossless vs Poor DACS / Good DACS, because I've not compared really poor DACS. However, if you choose a DAC in the green or maybe even orange section of the SINAD I don't think you'll find a difference on soundstage.

EDIT: thought about what I was saying as I was typing, and YouTube uses compression, so it's cutting whole snippets out of the music as part of the compression process, so that's not really technically the same thing as "destruction via low SINAD"......so on reflection I think you're imagining the difference in DACS unless perhaps you cross the boundary into very poorly measuring DACS.

EDIT #2: I do think overall clarity of sound is one of the elements that goes towards enhancing soundstage of a recording when listening on speakers (as well as headphones).......and then if you listen on headphones then there's more variables associated with the headphone model & design which is not fully understood, but for speakers the soundstage capability will be largely be part of the recording of the track combined with you having your speakers being anechoic flat / room EQ / perhaps wide even dispersion/directivity as well as optimal equalateral triangle listening position.......but the DAC won't be a major influencer.

 

[audiofun]

It has analog inputs as well. This dac is likely to perform better comparing to internal genelec dac module.

That's not true. It's not a 8030. For the Genelec 8330 OP has, Analog signal is first converted to digital using an ADC, then room corrected (DSPed), and finally converted to analog before playback. If you have a digital signal, that signal does not have any DA-AD loss, and goes directly to the DSP then converted to analog.
Having any kind of external DAC degrade the performance of the monitor.

 

[odyo]

The problem with this product is that it's not competitive against stacks or even DX3Pro+. There is clearly a ''premium audiophile tax'' here. I'm looking for this type of product for years but it's a disappointment again. I guess it's just hard for their engineers to do all in one combo unit. This doesn't have the performance of L30 or power of L50/A30pro. Doesn't have something like parametric EQ feature to set itself apart. It has bluetooth and MQA mumbo jumbo and inflated price.
This came out like 4 years ago: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24459

 

[xnor]

Why are people complaining about the hump? If it were at -200dB they'd still be complaining. 'Cmon guys, the peak of the hump is still equal to the best cases performance of the other DACs.

To be frank: because they don't have a clue what they're looking at.

 

[xnor]

The problem with this product is that it's not competitive against stacks or even DX3Pro+. There is clearly a ''premium audiophile tax'' here. I'm looking for this type of product for years but it's a disappointment again. [...] It has bluetooth and MQA mumbo jumbo and inflated price.

I'm disappointed for similar reasons. To quote myself from 2 months ago:

I'd also like to see a DX5 (Pro+) with balanced line-outs but unbalanced headphone amp (to keep the price as close as possible to the DX3). There's little to no point in a balanced connection to the headphones anyway, but when connecting grounded devices balanced is a must in my book.

DX5 should have been a slightly more expensive DX3 (Pro+) with balanced line-outs and 6.35mm headphone jack. Those are the main shortcomings of the DX3 (Pro+).
I also very much dislike the company behind MQA so I will not support them by paying the MQA fee.

 

[Standing in the rain]

They don't do soundstage here, maybe because it can't be evaluated by SINAD .
I was testing with friends, about a year ago a group of mid priced dacs, SMSL and Topping are not shown as the best regarding soundstage. I don't know why, maybe components&topology they use in output stage. Anyway... properly setup planar speakers (Magnepan, MartinLogan) are useful tool for soundstage, easy to spot a difference .... less sidewalls reflections by default.

That’s not true ! My topping dac, amp and speaker combination has a massive soundstage. When I play Vogue by Madonna her voice come from behind my left shoulder to way behind my right speaker. Q sound is quite amazing, try amused to death by roger waters.

 

[TheTalbotHound]

Does anyone know why no manufacturer has yet managed to completely get rid of the IMD hump on the 9068AS chip when they have been able to remove it completely on products based on any other ESS chip i've seen? Is there something fundamentally different about the design of the 9068AS chip? If so, do we know what that difference is?

 

[xnor]

They don't do soundstage here, maybe because it can't be evaluated by SINAD .

Nah, because plain amps don't create additional soundstage. FX devices do. DSPs do. The soundstage is already in the recordings.

The main ways an amp could mess up the "soundstage" would be through grave design errors.
One, for example, would be high resistance to ground on an unbalanced headphone output.

These things are actually easy to measure, but last time I tried making a suggestion in a "how to improve headphone measurements" thread a supposed expert tried to educate me on basics of DSP and derailed the discussion completely so yeah, there are more fun ways to waste time...