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The REAL Problem of March Audio's Sointuva WG (Review, Measurements and Reinforcements with Klippel device)

sq225917

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I look forward to seeing March's archived measurements for these speakers. If they turn up the only issue is the binding posts.
 

SDC

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Mix a teaspoon of soap in water, and spray or put the solution on the area that you suspect is leaking. If bubbles start to show up, it's an indication that you have a leak.;)

Spraying that over BE tweeter will be a horror show...

SBA tweeters are not leaking but some sort of resonance in the joints? Measured by mic and fixed by rubber.

Resonance or leak don't know what is better but it was bit quick to comment it was leak, thats true...
 

DualTriode

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Here's an ASR member who knows how to properly secure drivers to a baffle:

index.php


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We can assume that the driver is securely attached to the baffle. With that assumption we can determine that the the vibrating speaker frame and motor motion is transferred to the front speaker baffle of the enclosure. This could be the exact opposite of the optimal effect.

If you look at the mounting of drivers over at the linkwitzlab.com site the goal is vibration isolation with the concept of minimizing the excitation of enclosure panels.

Grounding the driver to the enclosure may be completely wrong, it may cause the resonance that we are attempting to avoid.

Thanks DT
 

Holmz

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We can assume that the driver is securely attached to the baffle. With that assumption we can determine that the the vibrating speaker frame and motor motion is transferred to the front speaker baffle of the enclosure. This could be the exact opposite of the optimal effect.

If you look at the mounting of drivers over at the linkwitzlab.com site the goal is vibration isolation with the concept of minimizing the excitation of enclosure panels.

Grounding the driver to the enclosure may be completely wrong, it may cause the resonance that we are attempting to avoid.

Thanks DT

Yep.

It sounds like a tautology, but… If there is anything that someone who worked in their previous career of vibration control should know, I would assume it would be vibration control.
 

restorer-john

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Yep.

It sounds like a tautology, but… If there is anything that someone who worked in their previous career of vibration control should know, I would assume it would be vibration control.

Yes, you would think so, but it clearly didn't work out the way he wanted did it? Let's stop calling it some magical vibration reduction system based on science. It's a poorly considered cheap option that fell out and/or was loose when the reviewer tested these speakers. I have absolutely no doubt the reviewer is telling the truth and the other party is desperately trying to save face by (poorly) attempting (standard MO) to discredit someone else to make himself look better. So sad and newsflash! It's a puerile method that always backfires. And backfire it has.

The speaker frame rim is coupled to the baffle in any case and obviously the rubber well-nuts are a poor choice. In 4 decades of working on speakers and audio, I have never seen such unsuitable fixings applied to secure woofers to a baffle. Not once. They do not stand the test of time in any situation and proper speaker manufacturers know this. Mostly you will see them in auto installations where they regularly fall out of blind holes due to the rubber going hard, shrinking etc. We've all been there. Once permanently disfigured they sag. In this vertcial placement they are just totally unsuitable for the long term.

Speakers where esoteric or unsuitable methods of decoupling were applied to mitigate baffle vibration/resonance have invariably had short operational lives. Plenty of manufacturers have tried unsuccssfully to present woofer/baffle decoupling designs (this is nothing new) and they all reverted to tried and true fixing methods. Jamo threw a ton of research money at baffle/woofer decoupling in the 1980s and released a range called CBR with neoprene vibration control blocks. They abandoned the entire idea after the woofer decoupling joints sagged and failed in a few short years. I used to see CBRs with the woofers falling out! Around the same time the foam surrounds rotted out, so most went to landfill. At least they stayed firmly attached long enough to get a proper review, unlike this particular pair of Sointuvas.

Jamo's CBR details for those of you too young in 1985:

1657417385837.jpeg


And at that time, Jamo was producing over 600,000 loudspeakers per year ,from a 16,500sqM factory with a daily output capacity of 2,000 finished systems.
 
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IPunchCholla

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...fell out of the woofer tree & hit every branch on the way down?
I’m maybe the first to not defend Restorer-John, but I recognize his deep commitment and experience, even if I disagree with him. The ad-hominem and quote clipping is pretty uncool IMO.
 

IPunchCholla

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If you take a very careful look at the photo, you might notice it's not actually a photo of an ASR member.
It’s what I get for replying while drinking on a Saturday night…
 

Doodski

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I’ll have a drink of whatever he is having. :)
I really want a margarita atm...lol. Too late to go to the liquor store (It closes at 2am.) and get the ingredients and the grocers are closed too. I heard in the USA they have 24 hour grocery and sell booze right in the grocery too. :D
 

Blumlein 88

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I really want a margarita atm...lol. Too late to go to the liquor store (It closes at 2am.) and get the ingredients and the grocers are closed too. I heard in the USA they have 24 hour grocery and sell booze right in the grocery too. :D
Some places in the USA do. Some convenience stores, which are basically gas stations with snacks for sale, have a separate small section for booze and in some locales 24 hrs. What better convenience than to have late night/early morning booze while you also gas up the ride. Of course other parts of the USA don't allow that or after midnight sales or Sunday sales of alcohol. Some counties are still dry and don't allow any alcohol at all. I live near the intersection of 3 counties with one of each, all the time, no late night or Sunday sales, and no sales at all.
 

Doodski

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Some places in the USA do. Some convenience stores, which are basically gas stations with snacks for sale, have a separate small section for booze and in some locales 24 hrs.
It's rare to have gas stations selling booze here. They are mostly licensed as a country store that is in a isolated area and not competing with any specialized liquor store.
Of course other parts of the USA don't allow that or after midnight sales or Sunday sales of alcohol.
We used to go to Washington State on Sundays for a pub run because the stores and bars where closed in the part of Canada that I was from. One day I was playing pool and some guy asked to challenge me for the table and it turned out he was the local sheriff coming in for a beverage and a break from the daily grind. That was a surprise for me...lol. In Canada one never sees the coppers in the pub unless they are doing spot checks for being of legal drinking age which is generally 18-19 years of age dependent on regions.
Some counties are still dry and don't allow any alcohol at all. I live near the intersection of 3 counties with one of each, all the time, no late night or Sunday sales, and no sales at all.
Yes, there are devout religious regions in Canada where they have dry cities. I've never been to one and I think that's kind of strict.
 

Doodski

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restorer-john

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They have such areas in the USA. And they are serious about it.

Well, it's a huge country, just like Australia and some of the crazy ass rules we have here from state to state make no sense to a rational person either.

It is what it is and you pick your poison.
 
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