The pain of being a member of ASR

[computer-audiophile]

My pain of being a member of ASR​

Recently, I've been reflecting on my engagement here on the forum. The discussions in some threads, marked by contentious debates and a focus on proving oneself right, have led me to reconsider my active participation. All too often the arguments are presented in an aggressive and personally hurtful manner.

I value the essence of the audiophile community and the shared joy and passion for the hobby. However, the current atmosphere in ASR has made me question where the true benefit and enjoyment lies. I am also considering whether I can continue to make a constructive contribution to the discussions.

Whenever the turn of the year approaches, I always take the opportunity to make certain decisions. On New Year's Day 2023, for example, I unsubscribed from the Audio Analogue Association forum, where I had been a member for many, many years.

 

[Esprit]

I have had to put up with many many individuals throughout my life who made al kinds of nonsense claims over a wide variety of subjects.

People who believe in the horoscope

 

[dasdoing]

people who say evolution theory is just a theory (well you know man, that’s just your opinion)

well, it is "just" a theory.
The problem is that people don't understand what a theory is. they think a theory is what is a hypothesis

 

[ernestcarl]

My pain of being a member of ASR​

Recently, I've been reflecting on my engagement here on the forum. The discussions in some threads, marked by contentious debates and a focus on proving oneself right, have led me to reconsider my active participation. All too often the arguments are presented in an aggressive and personally hurtful manner.

I value the essence of the audiophile community and the shared joy and passion for the hobby. However, the current atmosphere in ASR has made me question where the true benefit and enjoyment lies. I am also considering whether I can continue to make a constructive contribution to the discussions.

Whenever the turn of the year approaches, I always take the opportunity to make certain decisions. On New Year's Day 2023, for example, I unsubscribed from the Audio Analogue Association forum, where I had been a member for many, many years.

You could just take a long holiday break -- it's only an online forum. Speaking of which, the timing could not be more apt it's already December. I'm thinking of doing the same as I still have other things to do like several books to read etc. Many (probably more important) things in the world to preoccupy oneself such as the economy going down the drain.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply @ernestcarl
Yes, I could do it that way.

BTW: There are a few positive things from my membership. I've learnt to express myself better in English, and I've gained more insight into the audio scene and other lifestyles and attitudes abroad. Not least from the USA which is different from Europe in some ways.

 

[MKR]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply @ernestcarl
Yes, I could do it that way.

BTW: There are a few positive things from my membership. I've learnt to express myself better in English, and I've gained more insight into the audio scene and other lifestyles and attitudes abroad. Not least from the USA which is different from Europe in some ways.

I for one have enjoyed your posts and participation, and hope ya stick around. But indeed this place can be harsh at times. Just look what happened to my $30k budget end game thread … I was literally targeted by a troll, the feeding frenzy started, and before you know it my thread was shut down due to no fault of my own and purely false accusations. It was personally very hurtful. But, even with all that, so far I have found more positive from ASR than negative, so I stick around. But believe me after that situaion I definitely had a thought of who needs this nonsense and almost fully left forum. But I put on my big boy pants and stuck around

 

[ahofer]

My pain of being a member of ASR​

Recently, I've been reflecting on my engagement here on the forum. The discussions in some threads, marked by contentious debates and a focus on proving oneself right, have led me to reconsider my active participation. All too often the arguments are presented in an aggressive and personally hurtful manner.

I value the essence of the audiophile community and the shared joy and passion for the hobby. However, the current atmosphere in ASR has made me question where the true benefit and enjoyment lies. I am also considering whether I can continue to make a constructive contribution to the discussions.

Whenever the turn of the year approaches, I always take the opportunity to make certain decisions. On New Year's Day 2023, for example, I unsubscribed from the Audio Analogue Association forum, where I had been a member for many, many years.

I’d be sorry to see that, I enjoyed our 20th century music discussion and your perspective as a true new music enthusiast. I also find the issue of clutter vs sound quality kind of interesting, although apparently my definition of clutter differs from yours.

However, and I mean this constructively (think of me as from the Netherlands as I say this), your recent experience was unpleasant not only because some *others* chose to be adversarial, but also because you were perceived to be engaging in this rhetorical technique:

Just asking questions

Just asking questions (also known as JAQing off, or as emojis: ""[1]) is a way of attempting to make wild accusations acceptable (and hopefully not legally actionable) by framing them as questions rather than statements. It shifts the burden of proof to one's opponent; rather than laboriously...

rationalwiki.org

..meaning that what was neutral discussion on the surface betrayed disagreement and possibly condescension underneath.

That’s all fine, btw, I almost can’t help doing it. But we shouldn’t be too surprised when it provokes opposition. The “Neutral Voice” is nearly impossible to achieve, as generations of journalists and non-fiction writers have learned (the new documentary on Tom Wolfe, “Radical Wolfe” is a good recent example of that discussion)

 

[ahofer]

Sometimes I think every post should start with “I could be wrong, and I value your input”.

But I don’t. I do try to keep my claims veeery specific, using language like “unlikely” or “improbable” and a Bayesian perspective on questions of fact. As for my own preferences, I allow as much dogma as I feel like at the moment.

 

[computer-audiophile]

I for one have enjoyed your posts and participation, and hope ya stick around. But indeed this place can be harsh at times. Just look what happened to my $30k budget end game thread … I was literally targeted by a troll, the feeding frenzy started, and before you know it my thread was shut down due to no fault of my own and purely false accusations. It was personally very hurtful. But, even with all that, so far I have found more positive from ASR than negative, so I stick around. But believe me after that situaion I definitely had a thought of who needs this nonsense and almost fully left forum. But I put on my big boy pants and stuck around

Thank you for the kind encouragement. I really don't want to talk too much about problems and I do not feel being offended. But the keyword "pain" have prompted me to think about it.

Technically, I don't have much more to add to my current systems, as everything runs very stably. It's a shame that it's stagnating, but that's the way it is right.
I'd like to talk more about music, but I haven't found a suitable place for that yet. Ultimately, audio is sometimes a lonely subject for me because I don't necessarily do the usual things.

But as I said, this really isn't meant to be a complaint, just my thoughts.

 

[bodhi]

It's very difficult to have nice debates in internet forums between somewhat anonymous users. You can use vast variety tricks to draw debates for days if not weeks and any participant can just stop debating when they have talked themselves in the corner and start from the beginning later on, having forgotten or pretending to have forgotten any previous counterarguments. Basically, you go through the same debates constantly, for years.

This will add harshness to the debates as the veterans have seen the same discussions over and over again. Said veterans from all points of view have thick skin though so they just go at it with a bit more colorful language, but this could be a problem with newer members who cannot imagine how much some thing has been talked out before. "Jeez, I just wanted to tell about my clarity enhancing silver USB cable and these meanies shot me down with a howitzer, without even considering my opinions".

This has been problem in all forums I have been for any length of time and I have no idea what would the solution. Moderators could use zero tolerance and force nice and positive discussions only, but soon there wouldn't be anyone discussing or the discussions would become sterile and boring. People could of course self regulate and start being nicer persons, but looking back at human history I wouldn't count on that.

 

[MEGB1262]

My pain of being a member of ASR​

Recently, I've been reflecting on my engagement here on the forum. The discussions in some threads, marked by contentious debates and a focus on proving oneself right, have led me to reconsider my active participation. All too often the arguments are presented in an aggressive and personally hurtful manner.

I value the essence of the audiophile community and the shared joy and passion for the hobby. However, the current atmosphere in ASR has made me question where the true benefit and enjoyment lies. I am also considering whether I can continue to make a constructive contribution to the discussions.

Whenever the turn of the year approaches, I always take the opportunity to make certain decisions. On New Year's Day 2023, for example, I unsubscribed from the Audio Analogue Association forum, where I had been a member for many, many years.

Hi there,
i am located in Germany like you, and i know some DE-DE audio forums that are worse with netiquette probably beyond your imagination
I have met also very "peculiar" forum members in the EN-US DIYAudio forum, where you can find a longer list of banned members
the burden to go through for the most Germany located members in EN-EN or EN-US forums ist the rhetorical disadvantage versus the native speakers, but here i can underline your statement - only practice makes perfect

just my 5 cent in addition to your statement - Stefano

 

[Purité Audio]

I for one have enjoyed your posts and participation, and hope ya stick around. But indeed this place can be harsh at times. Just look what happened to my $30k budget end game thread … I was literally targeted by a troll, the feeding frenzy started, and before you know it my thread was shut down due to no fault of my own and purely false accusations. It was personally very hurtful. But, even with all that, so far I have found more positive from ASR than negative, so I stick around. But believe me after that situaion I definitely had a thought of who needs this nonsense and almost fully left forum. But I put on my big boy pants and stuck around

That thread had everything,
Keith

 

[fpitas]

I for one have enjoyed your posts and participation, and hope ya stick around. But indeed this place can be harsh at times. Just look what happened to my $30k budget end game thread … I was literally targeted by a troll, the feeding frenzy started, and before you know it my thread was shut down due to no fault of my own and purely false accusations. It was personally very hurtful. But, even with all that, so far I have found more positive from ASR than negative, so I stick around. But believe me after that situaion I definitely had a thought of who needs this nonsense and almost fully left forum. But I put on my big boy pants and stuck around

Trolls need a place to troll. We give them golden opportunities

 

[GXAlan]

I'd like to talk more about music, but I haven't found a suitable place for that yet.

A message board like this is like an American supermarket, or a large European department store like Harrod’s or Galleries Lafayette. It’s a mistake to think that everything on the message board is of interest to you.

A lot of frustration people get on Internet forums is wanting a close knit group of virtual friends to discuss all sorts of topics when it will just be an intersection of interests from time to time. Someone did a database analysis of the different types of ASR members, but it’s easy to imagine a group that is mostly headphone listening, a group that is mostly 2ch speaker listening, and a group that is mostly home theater.

If you want to talk about music, there are threads like this:

What are we listening to right now..

as it says on the tin, music we are enjoying or planning to listen too today.. i hope we all post our music here, all genres all formats so we can share our passions and learn from each other.

www.audiosciencereview.com

And don’t forget to start your own thread if you think you have something new to share with other ASR members.

For a community open to the public spanning multiple continents and geopolitical perspectives, it’s a small miracle the attitude here is as welcoming as it is.

 

[BDWoody]

I am also considering whether I can continue to make a constructive contribution to the discussions.

No one else wonders whether you are a positive contributor to the forum. Stick around...

I think most of us take the occasional 'breather,' including my fellow moderator and myself, but it's hard to find a group of people that are more capable of keeping me on my toes, and getting me to think.

I appreciate your comment on building language skills! One of the many things I appreciate about the membership, is how hard so many work to communicate effectively when English may be a 2nd, 3rd or 4th language.

Anyway, enjoy your holidays, enjoy your family, and enjoy the forum as it fits in with all the rest.

 

[fpitas]

I for one have enjoyed your posts and participation, and hope ya stick around. But indeed this place can be harsh at times. Just look what happened to my $30k budget end game thread … I was literally targeted by a troll, the feeding frenzy started, and before you know it my thread was shut down due to no fault of my own and purely false accusations. It was personally very hurtful. But, even with all that, so far I have found more positive from ASR than negative, so I stick around. But believe me after that situaion I definitely had a thought of who needs this nonsense and almost fully left forum. But I put on my big boy pants and stuck around

Glad you stuck around, BTW.

 

[MKR]

Glad you stuck around, BTW.

Thank you sir

 

[MKR]

Trolls need a place to troll. We give them golden opportunities

Agreed. However, and not to dredge up old history, but my thread situation was different than your typical troll causing trouble. It was very specific/personal and obviously targeted, quite bizarre. Anyway, enough of that, moving on

 

[Deleted member 21219]

Trolls need a place to troll. We give them golden opportunities

How very, very true! But it could be worse. See below:

Hi there,
i am located in Germany like you, and i know some DE-DE audio forums that are worse with netiquette probably beyond your imagination

I think we need to pause occasionally, and thank our Moderators. Not street stays clean without good street sweepers.

Thank you, @BDWoody and @AdamG247 !

Jim

 

[fpitas]

Agreed. However, and not to dredge up old history, but my thread situation was different than your typical troll causing trouble. It was very specific/personal and obviously targeted, quite bizarre. Anyway, enough of that, moving on

ASR is a bunch of serious engineers and scientists, many of whom have done well for themselves. Lots of actual advanced degrees and education. It's a magnet for angry stupid trolls.