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JRS

Major Contributor
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Albuquerque, NM USA
I would like to submit a modest hypothesis that attempts to reconcile well known behavior of electrons and conductors with the observations of these critical observers, who have brought needed attention to this matter. First we observe that the current in a wire is governed by the equation
i=nvAq (1)
where A is the current in Amperes,
v is the velocity
n is electron density which for copper is equal to 8.5 × 10^28 per m3,
q is the charge of the electron of 1.6 x 10^-19

From there it is a trivial matter to compute the average velocity of electron movement in a wire, known as rate of electron drift, A 12 gauge wire is about 3 mm^2 and so a 1 amp current corresponds to a velocity of 0.025 mm/second. Just to get a better feel for this it would take an electron to travel 1 meter of wire about half a day. We will come back to it, but for now think of these as the good electrons--undamaged as they come from virgin copper. Unlike some less scrupulous manufacturers who use recycled copper, we only source fresh copper that has been mined in Peru using modern methods so as not to scar the planet during it's removal.

Now for astute readers who object on the grounds that we are passing an alternating current, and so there is no net flow of electrons, let us look at events further downstream. You may recall that integrated circuits and the transistors themselves conduct direct current and so it must follow that there is a one way flow of electrons through the circuit toward ground, whereupon it is returned to the power company. Ultimately, this leads to the phenomenon of electromigration an insidious process that leads to areas of electron depletion (voids) alternating with heaps (hillocks) that leaves telltale marks in the trace itself. Here you can see the horrors first hand in these electron micrographs. Also pictured are the telltale whiskers where stray electrons seeking a path to complete the circuit followed blind alleys before deposition.
1635528079312.png

What you may not know and manufacturers are reluctant to divulge is that these types of defects are a well known cause of IC failures, and without precautions can lead to a period of intermittent contacts which we perceive as a grainy texture in the music, worsening as time as accumulated damages leads to grain cavitation and the ultimate inability to conduct electricity. What's worse is that the same issues can arise in numerical processing chips (collections of millions of transistors each) that lead to wrong answers. Obviously this is a significant issue in ADC and DAC's, and is likely the primary reason why digital music sounds harsh and grainy, and requires periodic replacement to maintain any semblance of accuracy.

So what can be done given the stark ravages of time that semiconductors are inevitably subject? The answer lies in our cabling. Recall that we use only the purest 99.999999999% oxygen free copper that maintains the crystalline structure needed for harmonious conduction able to replace the depleted electrons, with good electrons that haven't been bumped and bruised from previous use. Ask any expert billiards player as to the truth of this phenomenon--they will tell you that over time, pool balls begin to accumulate microscopic scratches that increase the "throw" of the object ball, resulting in missed "thin" shots. This can be accurately attributed to the greater friction between balls during collision. Well the same phenomenon occurs with electrons which strike each other at high speed as momentum is transferred between colliding electrons as it courses down a wire, or worse yet the thin layer of copper forming a trace. As a result collisions are erratic and result in more deviant directions of travel leading to the whiskers pictured above.

As it turns out the speed at which the damaged electrons can be replaced by the virgin electrons can be calculated in the same way as equation 1, substituting the appropriate dimensions of the cumulative pathways of the rectified current. And without doing specific calculations as electric circuits used for encoding/decoding/amplification depend on the type of device and the amount of harmful feedback being used. Negative feedback is especially detrimental as it necessarily involves electrons striking each other while flowing in opposite directions. Think of it as a smaller example where beams of protons, traveling in opposite directions at relativistic velocities are deliberately directed at one another to appreciate the molecular mayhem that results to the once crystalline copper lattices. It is for this reason that we generally recommend using circuits that have been carefully designed with this destruction in mind.

Getting back to the matter of calculations, it can be shown that it requires several days and sometimes weeks before the good electrons have had sufficient time and opportunity to replace their badly bruised counterparts. Occasionally users will notice that the sound quality may change immediately, not always for the better, and described as thin, bright or lean. This reflects that the initial repair occurs at a much greater rate before an electrical equilibrium is achieved. Owing to the large current required, bass notes will be the most adversely affected, and may take as long as a few weeks before flowing in an unimpeded fashion.

Finally the discerning reader may wonder what is happening within their Mystico wire cables. Surely these electrons will ultimately be need to be replaced, and that the source of those electrons must be upstream. Well luckily our clever engineers have pursued this problem and struck gold. You as a well informed consumer know that the ultimate conductor of electricity is gold. Obviously, it is economically infeasible to make audio cables from pure gold, but it just so turns out that we don't have to--with the use of our patented "goldbrick" Mystico wire cables can be rejuvenated through periodic electron replenishment from the finest of sources--a small gold ingot of 3.1415 grams and the associated circuits can achieve the needed rehabilitation overnight when done on a regular schedule. Less discerning users may find that the pure silver or copper substitutes available will fit their needs.

So having heard the truth about wires and the easily demonstrated effects of aging, we invite you to audition these and other products at our exclusive audio dealers, and hear for yourselves what a difference may make. In certain cases, we may allow you to trade in your old cable.

Schedule your appt today at 1-800-Erewhon.
 

ta240

Major Contributor
Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
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And you have gotta love those computer printed "Christmas letters" folded and placed in card. You know, the "all about me, my wonderful life and perfect kids" essays. Worst thing is, my sister still sends those horrible things to Mum and Dad. :facepalm:

The "I didn't care enough about you to talk with you about things during the year so here is an update" newsletters.
 

JayGilb

Major Contributor
Joined
Jul 22, 2021
Messages
1,384
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Location
West-Central Wisconsin
I would like to submit a modest hypothesis that attempts to reconcile well known behavior of electrons and conductors with the observations of these critical observers, who have brought needed attention to this matter. First we observe that the current in a wire is governed by the equation
i=nvAq (1)
where A is the current in Amperes,
v is the velocity
n is electron density which for copper is equal to 8.5 × 10^28 per m3,
q is the charge of the electron of 1.6 x 10^-19

From there it is a trivial matter to compute the average velocity of electron movement in a wire, known as rate of electron drift, A 12 gauge wire is about 3 mm^2 and so a 1 amp current corresponds to a velocity of 0.025 mm/second. Just to get a better feel for this it would take an electron to travel 1 meter of wire about half a day. We will come back to it, but for now think of these as the good electrons--undamaged as they come from virgin copper. Unlike some less scrupulous manufacturers who use recycled copper, we only source fresh copper that has been mined in Peru using modern methods so as not to scar the planet during it's removal.

Now for astute readers who object on the grounds that we are passing an alternating current, and so there is no net flow of electrons, let us look at events further downstream. You may recall that integrated circuits and the transistors themselves conduct direct current and so it must follow that there is a one way flow of electrons through the circuit toward ground, whereupon it is returned to the power company. Ultimately, this leads to the phenomenon of electromigration an insidious process that leads to areas of electron depletion (voids) alternating with heaps (hillocks) that leaves telltale marks in the trace itself. Here you can see the horrors first hand in these electron micrographs. Also pictured are the telltale whiskers where stray electrons seeking a path to complete the circuit followed blind alleys before deposition.
View attachment 162038
What you may not know and manufacturers are reluctant to divulge is that these types of defects are a well known cause of IC failures, and without precautions can lead to a period of intermittent contacts which we perceive as a grainy texture in the music, worsening as time as accumulated damages leads to grain cavitation and the ultimate inability to conduct electricity. What's worse is that the same issues can arise in numerical processing chips (collections of millions of transistors each) that lead to wrong answers. Obviously this is a significant issue in ADC and DAC's, and is likely the primary reason why digital music sounds harsh and grainy, and requires periodic replacement to maintain any semblance of accuracy.

So what can be done given the stark ravages of time that semiconductors are inevitably subject? The answer lies in our cabling. Recall that we use only the purest 99.999999999% oxygen free copper that maintains the crystalline structure needed for harmonious conduction able to replace the depleted electrons, with good electrons that haven't been bumped and bruised from previous use. Ask any expert billiards player as to the truth of this phenomenon--they will tell you that over time, pool balls begin to accumulate microscopic scratches that increase the "throw" of the object ball, resulting in missed "thin" shots. This can be accurately attributed to the greater friction between balls during collision. Well the same phenomenon occurs with electrons which strike each other at high speed as momentum is transferred between colliding electrons as it courses down a wire, or worse yet the thin layer of copper forming a trace. As a result collisions are erratic and result in more deviant directions of travel leading to the whiskers pictured above.

As it turns out the speed at which the damaged electrons can be replaced by the virgin electrons can be calculated in the same way as equation 1, substituting the appropriate dimensions of the cumulative pathways of the rectified current. And without doing specific calculations as electric circuits used for encoding/decoding/amplification depend on the type of device and the amount of harmful feedback being used. Negative feedback is especially detrimental as it necessarily involves electrons striking each other while flowing in opposite directions. Think of it as a smaller example where beams of protons, traveling in opposite directions at relativistic velocities are deliberately directed at one another to appreciate the molecular mayhem that results to the once crystalline copper lattices. It is for this reason that we generally recommend using circuits that have been carefully designed with this destruction in mind.

Getting back to the matter of calculations, it can be shown that it requires several days and sometimes weeks before the good electrons have had sufficient time and opportunity to replace their badly bruised counterparts. Occasionally users will notice that the sound quality may change immediately, not always for the better, and described as thin, bright or lean. This reflects that the initial repair occurs at a much greater rate before an electrical equilibrium is achieved. Owing to the large current required, bass notes will be the most adversely affected, and may take as long as a few weeks before flowing in an unimpeded fashion.

Finally the discerning reader may wonder what is happening within their Mystico wire cables. Surely these electrons will ultimately be need to be replaced, and that the source of those electrons must be upstream. Well luckily our clever engineers have pursued this problem and struck gold. You as a well informed consumer know that the ultimate conductor of electricity is gold. Obviously, it is economically infeasible to make audio cables from pure gold, but it just so turns out that we don't have to--with the use of our patented "goldbrick" Mystico wire cables can be rejuvenated through periodic electron replenishment from the finest of sources--a small gold ingot of 3.1415 grams and the associated circuits can achieve the needed rehabilitation overnight when done on a regular schedule. Less discerning users may find that the pure silver or copper substitutes available will fit their needs.

So having heard the truth about wires and the easily demonstrated effects of aging, we invite you to audition these and other products at our exclusive audio dealers, and hear for yourselves what a difference may make. In certain cases, we may allow you to trade in your old cable.

Schedule your appt today at 1-800-Erewhon.
This guy sells $900 power cords, but at least they are named appropriately.
 

DSJR

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 27, 2020
Messages
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4,571
Location
Suffolk Coastal, UK
"Obviously this is a significant issue in ADC and DAC's, and is likely the primary reason why digital music sounds harsh and grainy, and requires periodic replacement to maintain any semblance of accuracy."

Really? :D I thought it was nasssssty tweeters and 'upper mid peaky' speakers, odd order distortion and clipping performance in some 80's 'enthusiast' amps (probably some 90's ones too) - -60dB was judged acceptable then and even less on 19k+20k intermodulation tests...

Early issue CD's which weren't nice then can sound great today...

Apologies, recognising irony was never a strength of mine...
 

simbloke

Senior Member
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May 30, 2019
Messages
355
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585
Location
North Wales, UK
Im starting this thread to critique the rubbish and propaganda that is published on this website to avoid being censored and/or banned/deleted for speaking out and telling the truth. They perform no scientific testing on anything they review. The reviews are done by people who have no engineering or science degrees. One plays a bass guitar, one is a former car audio hack, one masquerades as a HIFI journalist, whatever that is.

https://www.stereo.net.au/reviews/egm-audio-black-ml-reference-audio-power-cable-review

So lets start with the ridiculous "applause awards"

First off is this $400 mains cable. Now we all know about mains cables, what they are plugged into and what lies behind the wall. The $400 cable is plugged into a $5 power point found in every house in the country.

Lets get right to the review and what they say a power cable can do remembering its plugged into the same socket as every other appliance in the house.











The obligatory company blurb. This is where the advertising money comes in to it.



All this from a power cable.

This is Audiophile snake oil at its finest.
View attachment 101121
 

JRS

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 22, 2021
Messages
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Location
Albuquerque, NM USA
Maybe. But as I tried to show is that a perhaps even more effective form of propaganda is to take some physical phenomenon--in this case electron migration and the adverse impact on IC's--and to connect that to well known perceptual phenomena (thin, bright sound), forming a physical basis for the problem at which point you demonstrate a cure. It is even better if it fits the mythical precepts of break-in period, digititis, etc. In this way you build a case for the product that only you supply: a source of "clean" electrons that cannot be provided in perpetuity (because we all know that there is no free lunch), but one that requires recharging--a lovely audiophile activity, long days work, I will recharge my cables, have dinner and a glass of wine, then once the hag retires for the night, my single malt and my newly invigorated power cable (loudspeaker wires, interconnects) which sets the expectation for improved performance and audio bliss. This I think is key and what accounts for many of the placebo effects in audio. It might e even more effective if the "rejuvenations" were of diminishing returns, setting up a psychological tension as to whether to splurge that particular night. Having done so, it's practically a given that everything will be open, relaxed, effortless, revealing etc. The other advantage is that you build in a finite term of satisfaction--he knows that eventually the magic will wear off, and will need another fix.

I suspect if I give this more time I could develop a coherent business model based on such quack-foolery. There is much to be said for testimonial "evidence. Rather than some aging bass guitarist with hammered hearing from some variety of misspent youth, why not a PhD in material science who also happens to be an amateur cellist?

It wouldn't take much effort to remove the silliness and tighten the "science"--just a rough draft I winged at, but hope had some value in exposing and mocking the methodology of many of these charlatans.
 

JayGilb

Major Contributor
Joined
Jul 22, 2021
Messages
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Location
West-Central Wisconsin
Maybe. But as I tried to show is that a perhaps even more effective form of propaganda is to take some physical phenomenon--in this case electron migration and the adverse impact on IC's--and to connect that to well known perceptual phenomena (thin, bright sound), forming a physical basis for the problem at which point you demonstrate a cure. It is even better if it fits the mythical precepts of break-in period, digititis, etc. In this way you build a case for the product that only you supply: a source of "clean" electrons that cannot be provided in perpetuity (because we all know that there is no free lunch), but one that requires recharging--a lovely audiophile activity, long days work, I will recharge my cables, have dinner and a glass of wine, then once the hag retires for the night, my single malt and my newly invigorated power cable (loudspeaker wires, interconnects) which sets the expectation for improved performance and audio bliss. This I think is key and what accounts for many of the placebo effects in audio. It might e even more effective if the "rejuvenations" were of diminishing returns, setting up a psychological tension as to whether to splurge that particular night. Having done so, it's practically a given that everything will be open, relaxed, effortless, revealing etc. The other advantage is that you build in a finite term of satisfaction--he knows that eventually the magic will wear off, and will need another fix.

I suspect if I give this more time I could develop a coherent business model based on such quack-foolery. There is much to be said for testimonial "evidence. Rather than some aging bass guitarist with hammered hearing from some variety of misspent youth, why not a PhD in material science who also happens to be an amateur cellist?

It wouldn't take much effort to remove the silliness and tighten the "science"--just a rough draft I winged at, but hope had some value in exposing and mocking the methodology of many of these charlatans.
Yes, there is money to be made from such a business proposal and depending on your ability to sleep, on a really expensive bed, you could probably make a tidy profit. The key is to show just a tiny amount of truth/data in your claims, but additional research would soon reveal you are peddling BS. Few people would do the research or have the knowledge to determine the validity of your claims.
 

syn08

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Joined
Aug 9, 2019
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Location
Toronto, Canada
I haven’t laughed so hard and loud in ages. It takes some serious knowledge to put up this amount and quality of bull chips, something the audio snake oil merchants don’t have.
 

Saidera

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Jul 18, 2020
Messages
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Location
Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
Seriously, so long as it's Australian and it delivers value to its consumers then it's pretty good.

But this is very entertaining nonetheless.
 

escksu

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A 10 months old thread.....:oops:

Hmm.... I am not sure if it make sense to dig up such old threads and post in them....
 

Ata

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Now that I have come across this thread I know I am not alone in thinking "who reads SN and to what end"? I have taken advantage of the classifieds every now and then, but a $2500 cable second hand?! :facepalm::facepalm:
 

Ata

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This is one of the Aussie enterprises that restores (a bit of) my faith in humanity: https://www.nbspeakercables.com.au/

Actually, I would argue that stereonet is rather the exception as far as the Aussie audio scene is concerned! I am quite proud of brands like Duntech, VAF, Krix, Adelaide Speakers that are local Adelaide legends, plus many more recent examples such as March Audio.
 

David Harper

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Jul 7, 2019
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Personally, I don't have a problem if people want to spend that much on a high quality support system for their expensive gear. Especially if they use a turntable, the requirement for quality support is not just optional, it's essential. So yes, such a stand will result in better performance from TTs and some CD players, especially on timber or floating floors.

This is a typical actual customer application. (from Solidsteel's website)
View attachment 101207
And this:
View attachment 101208
So, as you clearly can see, not the typical ASR member with a pile of disparate cheap ChiFi and a pair of $80 Andrew Jones Pioneers...

With large and heavy gear, and lots of it, audiophiles need rock solid support as anything cheap simply cannot take the weight. For example, there's 80kg sitting on my audio stand (a solid timber buffet) and that's just 5 components.

We all know expensive power cords are a scam, but using ASR to attack Stereonet doesn't do anyone any favours. Let them be- they're happy in their delusions.
" typical ASR member with a pile of disparate cheap ChiFi " really? which of us, specifically, are you talking about?
 

izeek

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Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
389
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197
Location
maryland
To give a car analogy:

If room treatment + EQ is a high quality set of tires, then audiophile power cables is a pair of racing stripes.
like these? got three of these. they look nice, don't they. omg, the difference in sound though!:cool:

0416211911.jpg
 
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