SMSL M400 & M200 new dacs!

[Ibsen]

You're kidding, right? If you're serious, this is the wrong forum for subjective 'sound signature' circle jerking. If you were sarcastic, carry on..

Maybe sound signature from one person might be flavor for someone, color from the other fellow. Or any other adjective which leads to same subjectivity. Despite This forum Be more focused in the numbers, afterall sound itself is subjective. Post says new DACs. Not xxx measurements.

 

[Ibsen]

Again, if you think we care about (non-double blind tested) subjective opinions here that function at the level of "flavor" or "color," you are in the wrong forum. There are plenty of frequency response, noise, and distortion measurements posted for us to discuss sound in a serious manner.

It is not a matter or caring or not. Otherwise none of us would be here to learn an share. In my case I cannot share once am just learning everything. In the case of the other member, also new in here, it was a normal question. Nobody is forced to answer but I believe there are several ways to answer that results in the same content or message
Anyway. I am here to learn. Not disagree with science nor disrespect any member.
Sorry any language mistake or any cultural Misbehaving.
Nice reading for everyone

 

[Veri]

im kinda new in this ... i honestly think they have sound signature after seeing some comparison between some of them .maybe im wrong .. i dont know

I see. Well, most of us here are very sceptical that there is such a thing as a converter with a 'sound signature'.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...le-thinking-a-dac-has-a-sound-signature.9245/

 

[samsa]

I see. Well, most of us here are very sceptical that there is such a thing as a converter with a 'sound signature'.

Hmmm. Really?

1. I thought that there were DBTs in which people could reliably distinguish between different reconstruction filters (linear vs minimum phase, sharp vs slow rolloff, ...). Even if your DAC offers a choice of filters (many don't), the precise behavior of the available selection will differ from DAC to DAC.
2. @amirm has certainly measured DACs with levels of distortion and/or poor enough linearity that the results ought to be audible to the listener.
3. NOS DACs (to pick a notorious example) leak a sufficient amount of ultrasonic crap that might or might not produce audible artifact (through IMD in your amplifier) depending on the properties of the amplifier you hook them up to.
4. Etc.

Perhaps "Well-measuring DACs, with 'similar-enough' reconstruction filters, are audibly indistinguishable." is a statement I could get behind. "There's no such thing as a DAC's 'sound signature'." is a little too strong.

 

[Veri]

Perhaps "Well-measuring DACs, with 'similar-enough' reconstruction filters, are audibly indistinguishable." is a statement I could get behind. "There's no such thing as a DAC's 'sound signature'." is a little too strong.

Right, agreed. NOS and slow filters will roll off. Distortion might become euphonic at some point. but good DACs shouldn't differ, be them AKM, ESS, TI/BB, Cirrus Logic or some FPGA like Chord. Saying AKM is 'vintage' sounding and ESS 'detailed', that's the kind of thing that I meant is silly blanket statement that holds no value or truth. For the rest I totally agree.

 

[samsa]

but good DACs shouldn't differ, be them AKM, ESS, TI/BB, Cirrus Logic or some FPGA like Chord. Saying AKM is 'vintage' sounding and ESS 'detailed', that's the kind of thing that I meant is silly blanket statement that holds no value or truth.

Well, the reconstruction filters offered by AKM and ESS (to pick the two that I am slightly — but only slightly — familiar with) are somewhat different. If those differences are audible ...

(Having said this, the various filters offered by AKM ought to sound at least as different from each other as from those offered by ESS. So calling the former 'vintage' and the latter 'detailed' is as stupid as you said it was.)

 

[Veri]

I think oversampling filters sound largely the same to be honest. Very rarely some people are actually sensitive to phase, but most people aren't, but not ruling out the possibility. But other than that, unless you go for a 'Super Slow' filter which is almost the same as NOS, I can't for the life of me hear a difference. I always choose a low latency choice, myself.

 

[dmac6419]

Right, agreed. NOS and slow filters will roll off. Distortion might become euphonic at some point. but good DACs shouldn't differ, be them AKM, ESS, TI/BB, Cirrus Logic or some FPGA like Chord. Saying AKM is 'vintage' sounding and ESS 'detailed', that's the kind of thing that I meant is silly blanket statement that holds no value or truth. For the rest I totally agree.

Cirrus Logic I can hear the changes with their filters clear as day

 

[Veri]

I can hear the changes with their filters clear as day

Very specific.. what filters, exactly?

 

[Ibsen]

It is refreshing to read the positive attitude in your response. Not many newcomers put much effort to learn about how we approach audio here before posting frivolous things that they learn from really bad youtube reviews and sites like reddit.

Two of the best places to start are the following:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/understanding-audio-measurements.2351/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...digital-audio-measurements.10523/#post-290932

It takes a little bit of work to get the hang of things, but it builds up quickly. Have fun!

Thanks!!!

 

[bonesy]

To get whats inside the boxes of M200 and sp200 is a non brainer, but I am still looking for a DIY case that replaces the no-go cases of those.

I have both of these. If I knew what I was doing I'd love to rehouse them and possibly replace the volume pots/knobs. My bro did electronic engineering at uni and is pretty handy with the soldering iron. Could you recommend a couple of sites that might help us do a bit of research? Thanks in advance.

 

[Nybto]

Trying to understand this fuss about how it looks (m200). Are the sides of the case vertical, or tilted as they appear to be in the SMSL photographs (which would be a bit off-putting!)?

 

[bonesy]

Trying to understand this fuss about how it looks (m200). Are the sides of the case vertical, or tilted as they appear to be in the SMSL photographs (which would be a bit off-putting!)?

 

[bonesy]

Excuse the smudge.

 

[1000ROUNDZ]

View attachment 64266

Looking good. How's the sound? What was your previous DAC before the M200?

 

[dmac6419]

Very specific.. what filters, exactly?

I can hear all the changes on the Ibasso DX160 2020 version,it only has 4 filters,I also have a fiio x3 with a cirrus dac in it, I'll test that one at a later date to see if i can hear a difference with that one as well.

 

[ModDIY]

I was also reluctant because of its oblique shape.

Finally I bought it anyway based on the measurements of the M300, so I expect a close performance with bonus Bluetooth LDAC and APTX-HD.

If the sound is there, the appearance will be (for me) very secondary.

 

[bonesy]

Looking good. How's the sound? What was your previous DAC before the M200?

I had the Topping D50s but decided to sell that with the P50 power supply because I wasn't happy with the A50 headphone amp and wanted a matching stack. I've only spent about £20/30 for the whole replacement so it was worth it.

They sound awesome. Or I should say the music sounds awesome and I can't hear either the amp or the DAC. More volume just gives louder music and no colouration. I absolutely love them. I got a big improvement with the XLRs over RCAs and I'm waiting for the 4 pin XLR cable to finish it off. I'll be drawing a line under my headphone purchases now but will try to put a bit of cash aside each month for a Christmas headphone present to myself : )

I personally think they look awful but it's been good for me to put that out of my mind and concentrate on the sound only. The appearance is growing on me but I'll never get over the slant and I can't understand why they don't match at all! Still awesome sounding gear though.

 

[bonesy]

I was also reluctant because of its oblique shape.

Finally I bought it anyway based on the measurements of the M300, so I expect a close performance with bonus Bluetooth LDAC and APTX-HD.

If the sound is there, the appearance will be (for me) very secondary.

I've had channel imbalance issues that I'm trying to ignore and there was a minor hiss that only appeared with the RCAs. It's all gone with the XLRs. Even with the XLRs I can still hear sound when the volume is at 0 but I'm trying to ignore that too. At 10 o'clock they all sound amazing.

 

[Scriba]

I had the Topping D50s but decided to sell that with the P50 power supply because I wasn't happy with the A50 headphone amp and wanted a matching stack. I've only spent about £20/30 for the whole replacement so it was worth it.

They sound awesome. Or I should say the music sounds awesome and I can't hear either the amp or the DAC. More volume just gives louder music and no colouration. I absolutely love them. I got a big improvement with the XLRs over RCAs and I'm waiting for the 4 pin XLR cable to finish it off. I'll be drawing a line under my headphone purchases now but will try to put a bit of cash aside each month for a Christmas headphone present to myself : )

I personally think they look awful but it's been good for me to put that out of my mind and concentrate on the sound only. The appearance is growing on me but I'll never get over the slant and I can't understand why they don't match at all! Still awesome sounding gear though.

I have the same stack as you but using RCA's. What's the big improvement with XLR's you wrote about?