SMPS supplies are rubbish

[solderdude]

A conclusion could well be:
Some SMPS are rubbish, some are excellent, most work just fine for many years but not all of them.
It all depends on manufacture and usecases.
SMPS are generally cheaper, lighter, more efficient, smaller and are regulated.

disadvantages could be mains leakage and HF emissions and load they provide to mains differs

 

[maty]

Talking about SMPS, LMPS, dirty mains... in Audiocircle there are a new thread. One of the SMPS is the famous iFi iPower. With a lot of graphs.

TeraDak DC-30 Linear Power Supply - Review

 

[DonH56]

Toriods generally lack an air gap and that makes them much more sensitive to DC. Standard EI transformers are better than toriods in most every way but have a stronger EM field around them (they radiate more) and so toroids have become "the" transformer for tightly-packed (e.g. audio) components. Aided by a healthy dose of marketing, natch.

There are good and bad SMPS. Good ones offer a whole lot of benefits over standard linear supplies for audio circuits, but there are so many bad, cheap ones around that as a class they have received a bad reputation. Good ones cost more to design, build, and shield. My limited experience with wall-wart SMPS is similar to John's -- the market is flooded with underdesigned, poorly-performing rip-offs and good ones tend to be hard to find. And one thing many unsuspecting consumers do not realize is how much trash a bad one spits back onto the AC line it is plugged into, turning your house wiring into a nice RFI antenna.

 

[Killingbeans]

Talking about SMPS, LMPS, dirty mains... in Audiocircle there are a new thread. One of the SMPS is the famous iFi iPower. With a lot of graphs.

TeraDak DC-30 Linear Power Supply - Review

I don't get it...

All he does is making measurements of the output ripple? That's not really a secret is it?

The really bonkers part is that he talks about the difference it makes on the "audio" from an external hard drive... Seriously. An external hard drive

He also claims that:

"If you have had good results with audio grade fuses and audio grade power cords, and if you are interested in this, or another, linear power supply, an upgrade power cord and audio grade fuse is worth auditioning."

But in the end shows two measurements that clearly indicates zero difference between stock power cords + fuses and the so called "audiophile" variety. Though fails to make that conclusion!?

 

[Deleted member 2944]

Nearly everything on the AudioCircle forum is eyebrow-raising.
A huge echo-chamber with everybody telling each other what they want to hear.
I call it the AudioCircle jerk forum.

Dave.

 

[HammerSandwich]

A conclusion could well be:
Some SMPS are rubbish, some are excellent, most work just fine for many years but not all of them.
It all depends on manufacture and usecases.

Wow, that sounds remarkably like every other mass-produced item ever.

Probably safe to add that the ~$5 bricks are less likely to perform well for decades. OTOH, they are cheap & easy to replace.

 

[Veri]

Nearly everything on the AudioCircle forum is eyebrow-raising.
A huge echo-chamber with everybody telling each other what they want to hear.
I call it the AudioCircle jerk forum.

Dave.

Audio JerkCircle

 

[maty]

I don't get it...

All he does is making measurements of the output ripple? That's not really a secret is it?...

The important here are the graphs and how they are measured. In any case, they are all in the same conditions.

What do you think about iFi iPower? https://ifi-audio.com/products/ipower/

And its assertions?

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=155847.msg1730884#msg1730884

*********** *********** ************

In all the forums there is everything, what is left over in all is the aggressiveness and the bad education, plagues of the open Internet from some years.

 

[Veri]

The important here are the graphs and how they are measured. In any case, they are all in the same conditions.

No, the most important thing is what is measured in the graphs and how it translates to actual differences in the analog domain, outside of lab experiments... also totally agree with killingbeans that starting your 'comparison' ahead with a bunch of SSD/HDD and how they 'sound' does not add to credibility.

 

[Killingbeans]

What do you think about iFi iPower? https://ifi-audio.com/products/ipower/

And its assertions?

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=155847.msg1730884#msg1730884

I don't think much. I've never seen evidence of the claimed 1uV output noise, and their web page does nothing to enlighten me. As far as I can tell, it's just a normal SMPS marketed to tap into some of that sweet, sweet mountain of money that 'audiophiles' gladly shovels towards anyone promising audio magic and/or pixie dust. I could be wrong though. It's not really something I've researched extensively.

 

[mitchco]

I have had good luck with Meanwell brand SMPS for the Pass ACA's I use on my compression drivers. They are 24V 5amp SMPS, make no mechanical noise and I can only hear a faint hiss when I put my ear right up to the compression driver (113 dB sensitivity with no padding and protection cap) with 1.5 amps bias current. However, I have had several other SMPS that have given up or become too noisy, so it takes a while to find a brand and model that is reliable and good quality. The folks at diyAudio tested a bunch of SMPS for the ACA and the Meanwell was the lowest noise and consistently reliable.

 

[levimax]

When ever I see claims for "magic" power supplies that improve sound, but at a very high price, I wonder why battery power is not more popular. I use battery power for my DIY phono pre-amp and pre-amp and active crossover. Definitely lowers the noise floor which I could measure and also cheaper than multiple low noise/ high performance supplies. Seems like some modern LiPo batteries and an efficient class D amp would be the "ultimate" for power amps... quiet, reliable, high current and no worries about EMF or DC on mains.

 

[sergeauckland]

When ever I see claims for "magic" power supplies that improve sound, but at a very high price, I wonder why battery power is not more popular. I use battery power for my DIY phono pre-amp and pre-amp and active crossover. Definitely lowers the noise floor which I could measure and also cheaper than multiple low noise/ high performance supplies. Seems like some modern LiPo batteries and an efficient class D amp would be the "ultimate" for power amps... quiet, reliable, high current and no worries about EMF or DC on mains.

I bet if that caught on, there would be threads running on which charger sounds better........

S

 

[levimax]

I bet if that caught on, there would be threads running on which charger sounds better........

S

No No No .... can't have a noisy charger in the circuit..... has to be turned off and disconnected when music playing ..... much better to argue about what type of battery sounds better.... lead acid or LiPo or NiMh .... to me lead acid sound "heavy and sour" and LiPo " light and plasticy" ... NiMh has just the right balance of "heavy metal" and "smooth rare earth"

 

[somebodyelse]

much better to argue about what type of battery sounds better....

Given that they're measurably different, and some batteries have some horrid characteristics, that might be a fair argument. Will try to dig out link to the tests later.

Edit to add links...Various, mostly AA cells showing some variation, particularly under load, and the one I remembered at TNT Audio with the NiCd having odd voltage jumps.

 

[levimax]

Given that they're measurably different, and some batteries have some horrid characteristics, that might be a fair argument. Will try to dig out link to the tests later.

I looked into it and read a lot of the studies and comparisons of different batteries. There is a lot of "anti battery" bias on the net for some reason and many claim that batteries are much noisier than a good supply. I think if you dig a little deeper that claim is suspect. While it is now possible to design a "lab grade" PS that is "as quiet" as batteries up until very recently batteries were (and still are) used in high quality test equipment because they are so quiet and are cheap and easy. A couple of 12 sealed Lead Acid batteries and a "rail splitter" with some filter capacitance can deliver very clean DC +/- 12 volt power at high current levels for very little money.

 

[Music1969]

The folks at diyAudio tested a bunch of SMPS for the ACA and the Meanwell was the lowest noise and consistently reliable.

I have heaps of Mean Wells. Come with 3 year warranties and all have lasted me 6 years now without an issue.

 

[restorer-john]

Put it this way, in my ~40 years of repairing HiFi and electronics in general, it is the lat 15 years where SMPS failures of all types, designs and costs have represented more than every other failure put together. I'm talking many hundreds.

I've had maybe 5 dead (genuinely dead) conventional power transformers in audio gear, and most of those were primary thermal fuse failures (not from actual heat, just current cycling failures).

I would not buy or own a piece of HiFi that uses an SMPS. The only area where I have no choice is my PC power supplies, but otherwise, they are banished.

 

[restorer-john]

I have heaps of Mean Wells. Come with 3 year warranties and all have lasted me 6 years now without an issue.

It's the degradation of the electrolyte in the internal capacitors. They run hot, way too hot and they are completely sealed. They keep working up to the point where the ripple is so bad the downstream circuitry fails.

Mean Well are no better than any of the others, I've seen plenty of dead ones from them too.

 

[Timbo2]

I would not buy or own a piece of HiFi that uses an SMPS. The only area where I have no choice is my PC power supplies, but otherwise, they are banished.

Seasonic has a new group of PC power supplies that has amazing regulation. I have one of them in my gaming rig. In this review the 12V rail from 6.38A to 82.94A of load the voltage swing was from 12.263V to 12.266V.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seasonic-prime-ultra-platinum-1000w-psu,5397-4.html

On my particular example using the motherboard monitoring with anything from idle to the 600W I can load it up with on synthetic benchmarks I've never seen it change from 12.168V full stop. I've built at least a dozen PCs over the past 25 years and never seen anything like it.