Sigberg Audio Manta (12" wideband cardioid active speakers) development thread

[AlmaAtaKZ]

Any plans for any appearances at any shows? Especially in UK. Very interested to hear the system with 4 subs.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Any plans for any appearances at any shows? Especially in UK. Very interested to hear the system with 4 subs.

Well you can hear it at @Purité Audio in the UK with two subs at least, and probably better sound there than we would be able to achieve at a show. Just contact him and I'm sure he will accomodate a listening session!

 

[sigbergaudio]

We're starting a series of 30-60 second ads now based on the setup at Velvet recording, as they have ended up with basically all our products. One setup with Manta + dual 10D, and one with SBS and dual Inkognito. We will also release one or two full video interviews as well, but focusing on getting out a few ads first.

Here is the first one:

Sigberg Audio on Instagram: "Christer Krogh from @velvetrecording on room problems common both in studios and listening rooms. Problems he used to have. Until he discovered Sigberg Audio! #sigbergaudio #studiomonitors #activespeaker #highendaudio #s

43 likes, 0 comments - sigbergaudioSeptember 15, 2023 on : "Christer Krogh from @velvetrecording on room problems common both in studios and listening rooms. Problems he used to have. Until he disc..."

www.instagram.com

 

[sigbergaudio]

A few pictures from the Norwegian hifi show Hortenmessen where we showed off the Mantas this weekend. Lots of great feedback, and the audience were allowed to test out anything from classical music to dubstep, and everything from low volumes up to 110dB and beyond.

We were running the Mantas with four subwoofers (2x 10D and 2x Inkognito 12).

 

[sigbergaudio]

So, I've been asked if we will ship Manta to Erin or Amir for review. This is not planned as of now, but what I have planned is to do a full set of measurements of both Manta and SBS.1 at Seas and their Klippel. The goal is enough data that CEA2034 graphs can be generated and that the results can be posted at spinorama.org. I hope to be able to do this by the end of November.

To counter the fact that both speakers will be penalized by lack of bass if measured on their own, I will attempt to measure each speaker as a system together with one of our subwoofers. That is after all how they are designed to be used. Hopefully we are able to do so successfully. I don't currently see any reason why it shouldn't be doable.

In that case, what will be presented are the measurements of Manta as a 4-way speaker system, and the SBS.1 as a 3.5-way speaker system.

To be continued..

 

[sigbergaudio]

An English translation of the recent review of Manta and 10D in the Norwegian magazine Stereopluss is now available. Please keep in mind that this was originally in Norwegian if there are some weird sentences here and there. Please also note that this is a subjective review without measurements, so make of it what you will.

Conclusion from the test:
"The sound quality of Sigberg Audio’s Manta and the accompanying 10D subwoofers is an impressive experience in every way and you would need to invest quite heavily in passive speakers and electronics in order to compete – and that’s without taking the amazing holography and focus of the speakers, as well as the highly impressive feeling of being in the recording studio or close to the stage, into account."

Link: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...ta_og_10D_Subwoofere_English.pdf?v=1697013546

 

[sigbergaudio]

The test can also be read here (perhaps easier to read): https://www.stereopluss.no/sigberg-audio-manta-10d-subwoofer.6624722-581361.html

 

[D!sco]

Have you considered making a subwoofer stand? It looks like there's the perfect amount of space just under the monitor.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Have you considered making a subwoofer stand? It looks like there's the perfect amount of space just under the monitor.

The 10D is the same width as the Manta, so finding a way to use that as a stand (need something in between for proper height) was part of the ideas during development, but a solution hasn't ended up in production yet. Time will tell if it will.

Part of the point of having subwoofer is to have the flexibility to have them elsewhere, and very often that is the better solution. So to place them directly under the speakers would likely not be the ideal position for most customers.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Full measurements now available on spinorama.org, started a separate thread to discuss measurements here:

Sigberg Audio Manta Cardioid active speakers: Full measurements (Spinorama)

Disclaimer#1: Klippel measurements from us (the manufacturer), not independent measurements. Disclaimer#2: Cleared with moderators that it would be okay to post this thread for specific discussion around the measurements and technical aspect of the speakers. For discussions related more...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[sigbergaudio]

Very nice to see some more cardioid options on the market!
And thank you so much for publishing your measurements!

@sigbergaudio If you don't mind me asking, where do you see the Manta's strengths compared to the very similarly priced Kii Three and D&D 8c?

(Answering your question from the measurement thread here to ensure I stay within forum guidelines for manufacturers. Especially the way you framed the question, the answer belongs in the desperate dealers forum )

@staticV3 First of all the dynamic range / SPL capacity of the Manta is way higher than both those offerings, and subsequently the distortion is lower. Due to the fact that it is designed explicitly for subwoofers, we also use drivers designed for midbass duty (different suspension, lighter cone). As the whole system is 4-way, the 12" driver is also dedicated for midbass, giving this speaker more midbass capacity than ..a lot of speakers.

Finally, a number of design choices, including the fact that it is a coaxial design, results in the Manta being superior with regards to imaging and the ability to portray a huge soundstage.

 

[staticV3]

First of all the dynamic range / SPL capacity of the Manta is way higher than both those offerings, and subsequently the distortion is lower. Due to the fact that it is designed explicitly for subwoofers, we also use drivers designed for midbass duty (different suspension, lighter cone). As the whole system is 4-way, the 12" driver is also dedicated for midbass, giving this speaker more midbass capacity than ..a lot of speakers.

Finally, a number of design choices, including the fact that it is a coaxial design, results in the Manta being superior with regards to imaging and the ability to portray a huge soundstage.

Thank you for your insight!

 

[poopy]

I'm resuscitating this thread subsequent to my second visit to Purite Audio a couple of weeks ago, during which I could listen for several hours to the Manta with dual 10D subwoofers with a close-to-optimal placement (no toe-in and based on some REW measurements and thoughts involving Thorbjørn).

This second visit was decisive as I had time to play with the different presets, sub gains, and some EQ (Keith killed some of the modes).

I was already struck the first time I listened to the Mantas by their capacity to create a wide and deep soundstage. Something remarkable. Thorbjørn listed and discussed in a separate thread the important factors used in his speaker design to create such large soundstages.

Something also remarkable with the Manta that I noticed the very first time, is a feeling of extreme clarity. This was even more enhanced during my second visit, possibly due to more optimal placement. This left me a bit puzzled because I couldn't explain this from the measurements only. Yet, it was obvious when instantly switching to the D&D 8 and then switching back to the Mantas. Is it coming from a specific tuning in the frequency response that it is still not obvious to me, or simply the 4-way design allowing for a better reproduction of the mid-bass? Maybe Thorbjørn, you have an explanation?

As you can read above I was extremely impressed with the Manta + dual 10D subwoofers. Some remarkable features that I haven't found yet in any other active speakers I listened to so far. This appears to be the result of a very clever design from Sigberg Audio requiring serious thoughts, solid knowledge, and definitely a huge investment of time!

Congratulations again!

 

[Emlin]

I'm resuscitating this thread subsequent to my second visit to Purite Audio a couple of weeks ago, during which I could listen for several hours to the Manta with dual 10D subwoofers with a close-to-optimal placement (no toe-in and based on some REW measurements and thoughts involving Thorbjørn).

This second visit was decisive as I had time to play with the different presets, sub gains, and some EQ (Keith killed some of the modes).

I was already struck the first time I listened to the Mantas by their capacity to create a wide and deep soundstage. Something remarkable. Thorbjørn listed and discussed in a separate thread the important factors used in his speaker design to create such large soundstages.

Something also remarkable with the Manta that I noticed the very first time, is a feeling of extreme clarity. This was even more enhanced during my second visit, possibly due to more optimal placement. This left me a bit puzzled because I couldn't explain this from the measurements only. Yet, it was obvious when instantly switching to the D&D 8 and then switching back to the Mantas. Is it coming from a specific tuning in the frequency response that it is still not obvious to me, or simply the 4-way design allowing for a better reproduction of the mid-bass? Maybe Thorbjørn, you have an explanation?

As you can read above I was extremely impressed with the Manta + dual 10D subwoofers. Some remarkable features that I haven't found yet in any other active speakers I listened to so far. This appears to be the result of a very clever design from Sigberg Audio requiring serious thoughts, solid knowledge, and definitely a huge investment of time!

Congratulations again!

Some people we say anything for a free t-shirt.

 

[poopy]

Some people we say anything for a free t-shirt.

What, only a T-Shirt? It's still black Friday weekend....

 

[sigbergaudio]

I'm resuscitating this thread subsequent to my second visit to Purite Audio a couple of weeks ago, during which I could listen for several hours to the Manta with dual 10D subwoofers with a close-to-optimal placement (no toe-in and based on some REW measurements and thoughts involving Thorbjørn).

This second visit was decisive as I had time to play with the different presets, sub gains, and some EQ (Keith killed some of the modes).

I was already struck the first time I listened to the Mantas by their capacity to create a wide and deep soundstage. Something remarkable. Thorbjørn listed and discussed in a separate thread the important factors used in his speaker design to create such large soundstages.

Something also remarkable with the Manta that I noticed the very first time, is a feeling of extreme clarity. This was even more enhanced during my second visit, possibly due to more optimal placement. This left me a bit puzzled because I couldn't explain this from the measurements only. Yet, it was obvious when instantly switching to the D&D 8 and then switching back to the Mantas. Is it coming from a specific tuning in the frequency response that it is still not obvious to me, or simply the 4-way design allowing for a better reproduction of the mid-bass? Maybe Thorbjørn, you have an explanation?

As you can read above I was extremely impressed with the Manta + dual 10D subwoofers. Some remarkable features that I haven't found yet in any other active speakers I listened to so far. This appears to be the result of a very clever design from Sigberg Audio requiring serious thoughts, solid knowledge, and definitely a huge investment of time!

Congratulations again!

Thank you for your kind words, I'm very happy every time another person discovers the Sigberg Audio sound!

 

[sigbergaudio]

Something also remarkable with the Manta that I noticed the very first time, is a feeling of extreme clarity. This was even more enhanced during my second visit, possibly due to more optimal placement. This left me a bit puzzled because I couldn't explain this from the measurements only. Yet, it was obvious when instantly switching to the D&D 8 and then switching back to the Mantas. Is it coming from a specific tuning in the frequency response that it is still not obvious to me, or simply the 4-way design allowing for a better reproduction of the mid-bass? Maybe Thorbjørn, you have an explanation?

Well, one suspect is the very limited dispersion beyond 90 degrees in the upper midrange and treble, it's almost total blackout beyond 90 degrees at 3khz and above. This is not the case with either for instance the Kii or Dutch, as both of those are conventional in this frequency range, while the Manta has a second cardioid system in the upper chamber where the coax lives. I suspect this might add to the experience of clarity and "air". That's certainly a distinct difference between the SBS.1 and the Manta, which shares the same driver, but the SBS.1 has it in a traditional, sealed enclosure.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Interesting question (and subsequent reply from me) in another thread, crossposting a bit: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ull-measurements-spinorama.49121/post-1803781

 

[sigbergaudio]

I had a guy over the other day who had speakers that were 143cm tall from before, so he wanted to know how it looked with two 10Ds under each speaker.. Interestingly the Mantas are actually so powerful that to truly match their maximum output (not that anyone plays that loud) you actually do need four 10Ds.

 

[Karu]

Nice, why not one below, the other on top of Manta?