Sigberg Audio Manta Cardioid active speakers: Full measurements (Spinorama)

[Purité Audio]

Does the cardioid design improve imaging, it does look like directivity is pretty concentrated. Also wondering but why does it look like it dies off pre-maturely after 12k?

I have both the Mantas and the SBS.1s here, obviously not completely like for like they, both image really well in terms of placement but the cardioid adds a a separation in terms of depth , there is just more space between elements and the sound is clearer.
Keith

 

[Blockader]

It's important to note that in-room response measurements for speakers should not be interpreted at face value, unlike the approach one might take with headphone frequency response measurements. This difference stems from the fact that the in-room response of speakers includes a combination of direct sound and reflections. In contrast, headphone frequency response primarily consists of direct sound, with only minor reflections above 3-4 kHz, depending on the headphone's cup size.

For human auditory perception direct sound is perceptually dominant over reflections. So, if a speaker has a flat or boosted on-axis treble response and a dramatically attenuated in-room response, it might not sound like it has recessed treble to our ears as much as in-room response of speakers suggests.
Measurements can reveal a speaker's accuracy and how effectively its designers have incorporated the principles of human psychoacoustics into its design. However, due to the non-linear nature of human hearing, it is always a good idea to experience speakers firsthand rather than relying solely on in-room response measurements.

 

[sigbergaudio]

I don't think "recessed treble" is a typical reaction to hearing the Mantas. And if one wants more, there's a preset accessible by a press of a button behind each speaker that will lift it by an additional 2dB. Further customization can be done in the onboard EQ if need be.

 

[poopy]

I don't think "recessed treble" is a typical reaction to hearing the Mantas. And if one wants more, there's a preset accessible by a press of a button behind each speaker that will lift it by an additional 2dB. Further customization can be done in the onboard EQ if need be.

You could even do a +2dB high shelf with the coax beaming at ear level as I do

I usually have a quick roll off of the treble beyond 10kHz at the MLP. Unavoidable in an untreated room with curtains, rugs, and other highly absorbing pieces of furniture.

Sitting closer to the speakers would help but then the soundstage size may be compromised. So playing with toe-in and EQ is the solution.

I guess if one is used to audiophile speakers with wrongly pronounced treble, one would need a high-shelf with the Mantas. I can recall a recent demo of the SF Olympica III... I had to leave the room after a few minutes, the treble was piercing.

 

[Purité Audio]

A few more years and you won’t have to worry about those high frequencies.
Keith

 

[sigbergaudio]

First white Manta has arrived, just a couple of shots in horrible lightning, will share some more when it is assembled. Looks awesome!

 

[dagfinn]

First white Manta has arrived, just a couple of shots in horrible lightning, will share some more when it is assembled. Looks awesome!

View attachment 360939

View attachment 360940

Interesting, do you have these in demo somewhere near Oslo? Not that I have the cash, just curious to hear them .

 

[sigbergaudio]

Side note; I see I posted those pictures in the wrong thread, was supposed to go here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...oid-active-speakers-development-thread.28255/

@dagfinn Yes we do (at least the black ones, but they sound the same ) - Reach out via PM and we can see if we can find a time.

 

[sigbergaudio]

World's first Manta in satin white is now assembled.

The question now is what ratio of black vs white color will be ordered.

 

[test1223]

World's first Manta in satin white is now assembled.

View attachment 364428
View attachment 364429


The question now is what ratio of black vs white color will be ordered.

They look really nice. How do they look with the cover attached? I think the white with a black cover has to look really good.

If I were your designer I would recommend to upgrade the look by designing a cover ring for the baskets of the driver which cover all screws and provides exactly the same black color for both drivers.

 

[sigbergaudio]

They look really nice. How do they look with the cover attached? I think the white with a black cover has to look really good.

If I were your designer I would recommend to upgrade the look by designing a cover ring for the baskets of the driver which cover all screws and provides exactly the same black color for both drivers.

I don't want to complicate the purchase process too much on the website, but if a customer were to contact us we could accommodate both grey and black grille on the white version.

With regards to cover rings: I understand what you are saying, but personally I like the functional look of visible screws, so that's a design choice. With regards to color, that is a trick of the light I think. The drivers are from the same manufacturer and are the exact same color.

With the grille on below. Note that this is not the original stand, so the black line below the speaker is not there on the actual stands (it rests on a thin steel panel that is invisible from the front). I have not yet decided if the stands should also be white or not. Instinctively that would make sense, but white stands would be a lot more visible, so I am not sure yet.

 

[dagfinn]

@dagfinn Yes we do (at least the black ones, but they sound the same ) - Reach out via PM and we can see if we can find a time.

Thanks, I will - any colour will do . But the white looks great, I could easily get used to those .

 

[OutlandAsh]

I don't think "recessed treble" is a typical reaction to hearing the Mantas. And if one wants more, there's a preset accessible by a press of a button behind each speaker that will lift it by an additional 2dB. Further customization can be done in the onboard EQ if need be.

"Recessed treble"? Certainly not a term I would ever use to characterize them after my audition. I thought they sounded like they had all the even handedness of the 8C, but they sounded like they could breathe more and had way more to give if you demanded it of them. Sorry - dont have an audiophile vocabulary - they just sounded right to me.

 

[songOVERsound]

right where that nipple is on “the rear (front?) wall bounce” is exactly where my worst null is. And I measure distortion there without even EQing yet.

It seems like between 100 and 200 hz is more of a pain than 30 - 100 hz, oddly enough

Has anyone else noticed this? Kii three and D&D have issues between 100-200 hz although I don’t see this as an issue with the Manta, just bad luck on my end that it lines up identically to that spot

 

[sigbergaudio]

right where that nipple is on “the rear (front?) wall bounce” is exactly where my worst null is. And I measure distortion there without even EQing yet.

It seems like between 100 and 200 hz is more of a pain than 30 - 100 hz, oddly enough

Has anyone else noticed this? Kii three and D&D have issues between 100-200 hz although I don’t see this as an issue with the Manta, just bad luck on my end that it lines up identically to that spot

I think 100-200hz (or even 100-300hz) being troublesome is pretty normal in most rooms.

Also, I am not sure that "nipple" implies what you think it implies. It peaks at 167hz, is that where your null is? The cardioid field of the Manta breaks apart a little bit in a narrow band, roughly 140-200hz. I've had different variations of this throughout the prototypes, some worse than others, but haven't pinpointed exactly what happens. It has to do with how the lower chamber is acoustically damped, not the enclosure itself.

But note that despite the fact that the cardioid effect is lower here, it's not gone. The level is still significantly lower than in a regular speaker. At this frequency, a traditional speaker would be down maybe 1-2dB at 180 degrees. The Manta is still down more than 4dB even at the peak. So it will still have an effect on your null.

Below is on-axis (black) and 180 degrees (faded green)

 

[songOVERsound]

I think 100-200hz (or even 100-300hz) being troublesome is pretty normal in most rooms.

Also, I am not sure that "nipple" implies what you think it implies. It peaks at 167hz, is that where your null is? The cardioid field of the Manta breaks apart a little bit in a narrow band, roughly 140-200hz. I've had different variations of this throughout the prototypes, some worse than others, but haven't pinpointed exactly what happens. It has to do with how the lower chamber is acoustically damped, not the enclosure itself.

But note that despite the fact that the cardioid effect is lower here, it's not gone. The level is still significantly lower than in a regular speaker. At this frequency, a traditional speaker would be down maybe 1-2dB at 180 degrees. The Manta is still down more than 4dB even at the peak. So it will still have an effect on your null.

Below is on-axis (black) and 180 degrees (faded green)

View attachment 374431

It is actually centered at 167 hz, so, almost outside of that peak!

Poor picture but you get the idea. When setting the smoothing to “psychoacoustic”, it isn’t bad at all, and luckily it doesn’t sound too noticeable thanks to it being narrow

 

[sigbergaudio]

It is actually centered at 167 hz, so, almost outside of that peak!

Poor picture but you get the idea. When setting the smoothing to “psychoacoustic”, it isn’t bad at all, and luckily it doesn’t sound too noticeable thanks to it being narrow

Yep. Not unusual to have issues like that. Thankfully often not that audible.

 

[richard12511]

right where that nipple is on “the rear (front?) wall bounce” is exactly where my worst null is. And I measure distortion there without even EQing yet.

It seems like between 100 and 200 hz is more of a pain than 30 - 100 hz, oddly enough

Has anyone else noticed this? Kii three and D&D have issues between 100-200 hz although I don’t see this as an issue with the Manta, just bad luck on my end that it lines up identically to that spot

100-200Hz is a very common problem in rooms. If anything, the D&D and 8C actually seem to handle this area better than other high end “normal” radiating speakers, at least from the examples I’ve seen.

 

[sigbergaudio]

100-200Hz is a very common problem in rooms. If anything, the D&D and 8C actually seem to handle this area better than other high end “normal” radiating speakers, at least from the examples I’ve seen.

A cardioid speaker will typically improve the response in this area, so that is likely to be the case with speakers like the D&D and Kii as well.

 

[Purité Audio]

My experience is that their ( cardioid) response designs have much tidier measurements ( through the cardioid region) compared to non cardioid designs and that cardioid designs are just that bit clearer.
Keith