Review and Measurements of NAD T758 V3 AVR

[Flak]

One may wonder though why so many users are so happy with the listening results of their NAD T758 V3 with a 0,23% distortion at appx.2 Vrms output and 0,003% THD+N at appx.1 Vrms while other units may measure better.
While these comparisons are correct in comparing apples to apples it happens that in our real world we listen thanks to a fruit salad composed of several "fruits" that include the speakers and the room itself.
Now when looking at non linear distortions those from the speakers are many times higher than the above values, usually many points per cent.. it's worth noting that (with a few exceptions) speaker manufacturers do not mention THD nor reviewers measure it (again with a few exceptions)
Intermodulation distortion value, as far as I know, is never present in speaker manufacturers specifications.
A thread about distortion in loudspeakers with interesting links has been posted in this forum:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...speakers.1297/

In a few words I think that NAD may have put the money where it really matters and, in my admittedly biased opinion, I agree with this Amir's statement in this review:
"The NAD T758 comes with Dirac Lite room equalization which if it works right, should make it audibly perform better than many AVRs that use lesser systems.
Despite my complaints here and there, my overall impression of the NAD T578 was a positive one. It definitely sets its apart from mass-market brand AVRs"

My two cents, Flavio

 

[digitalfrost]

I can I agree with that, but at least I'd like to know where I'm getting subpar performance, so I can decide that tradeoff for myself.

 

[Labjr]

NAD has done rail switching long as I can remember. Like during the 80's. I think they were first company to talk about it in their marketing. So nothing new. I guess it was cheaper for them to make a compact amp with more output for short periods. Some people were impressed by it. But I don't see an advantage for the consumer. More of a gimmick. Give me a traditional supply and output stage capable of putting out full power all the time.

 

[PierreV]

Given that the charts are so crowded and almost unreadable anyway, wouldn't it be a good idea to split them into different categories? (AVRs, integrated amps, pure dacs, etc...) The functionality of a KTB and an AVR are so massively different anyway...

 

[Flak]

NAD has done rail switching long as I can remember. Like during the 80's. I think they were first company to talk about it in their marketing. So nothing new. I guess it was cheaper for them to make a compact amp with more output for short periods. Some people were impressed by it. But I don't see an advantage for the consumer. More of a gimmick. Give me a traditional supply and output stage capable of putting out full power all the time.

Agreed, rail switching may be cheaper.. I'm not NAD's defendant but again they may have put the money where they thought it matters,
after all music is made of transients and putting out full power all the time can be unnecessary while transients and peaks handling is probably more important.

 

[Labjr]

Agreed, rail switching may be cheaper.. I'm not NAD's defendant but again they may have put the money where they thought it matters,
after all music is made of transients and putting out full power all the time can be unnecessary while transients and peaks handling is probably more important.

I always wondered if rail switching was transparent. Made no audible difference? But that probably didn't matter during the 80's for consumer electronics. How much slam it had was more important.

 

[RichB]

I second that.

You mean like what Marantz does? Rip out the power amps, put in XLR output and increase the price although the parts cost goes down?

I still have my Marantz AV7701 available. It is now a few generations behind, on the other hand the specs have not changed at all - indeed they are identical for all AV77xx and AV88xx so chances are high that newer models perform similar. I could do these measurements

• THD
• Multitone
• IMD
• Jitter
• frequency response
• channel crosstalk

on these inputs

• SPDIF coax
• SPDIF Toslink
• analog line level
• analog phono

in these modes:

• standard (Audissey off)
• direct
• pure direct

Is there any interest? If yes which measurements should I do?

These measurements are useful to establish the core performance of these devices. They tell us a great deal about the engineering and indirectly the goals of these products.

The three modes are particularly interesting because they show the maximum performance and the impact of DSP processing on performance.

The DAC measurements that correspond to ASR measurements are good for comparison. As far as input, analog line-level and one digital input.

Output measurements of THD+N by voltage is particularly useful because it is can be used to evaluate performance at typical listening levels. For example, in my system .2 to .5 volts is typical.

- Rich

 

[RichB]

I always wondered if rail switching was transparent. Made no audible difference? But that probably didn't matter during the 80's for consumer electronics. How much slam it had was more important.

It could be transparent but I found that the Outlaw M2200 sound very good at low levels driving my fields Revel F206's but harsh when driving them in the low to mid 80dB level. I suspect this is a consequence of the rail switching amp. Full power distortion is not going to provide any indication of rail switching misbehavior.

- Rich

 

[JJB70]

I think AVRs are one area of audio where if you really do want it all (how ever many channels of 100W+ sound that is now expected, more DTS and Dolby decoding than you can shake a stick at, DSP, on-board room correction, wireless streaming, premium build, hifi quality measured performance etc etc) then you need to be prepared to pay for it. Which means going way beyond the price of this NAD I think.

 

[AudioSceptic]

I think AVRs are one area of audio where if you really do want it all (how ever many channels of 100W+ sound that is now expected, more DTS and Dolby decoding than you can shake a stick at, DSP, on-board room correction, wireless streaming, premium build, hifi quality measured performance etc etc) then you need to be prepared to pay for it. Which means going way beyond the price of this NAD I think.

And divide the "receiver" up into the components, so you can put the money where you want, e.g., you might want advanced DSP but low-power amps are fine.

 

[amirm]

I would be interested in a review of the M22 NC400 amplifiers.

An M27 has been offered for review. What is the difference between them?

 

[Juhazi]

Are there Yamaha AVRs coming to test? They have been usually solid performers.

 

[amirm]

I think AVRs are one area of audio where if you really do want it all (how ever many channels of 100W+ sound that is now expected, more DTS and Dolby decoding than you can shake a stick at, DSP, on-board room correction, wireless streaming, premium build, hifi quality measured performance etc etc) then you need to be prepared to pay for it. Which means going way beyond the price of this NAD I think.

Problem is, given the lack of specs and hardly any measurements out there, it is hard to tell if any deliver right now.

 

[amirm]

Are there Yamaha AVRs coming to test? They have been usually solid performers.

Not right now. I may have a 10+ year old one some place but not sure. Is there a budget one that is popular?

 

[amirm]

NAD has done rail switching long as I can remember. Like during the 80's. I think they were first company to talk about it in their marketing. So nothing new. I guess it was cheaper for them to make a compact amp with more output for short periods. Some people were impressed by it. But I don't see an advantage for the consumer. More of a gimmick. Give me a traditional supply and output stage capable of putting out full power all the time.

I keep my AVR in an enclosed cabinet. I started with an Onkyo with classic AB amp. It ran so hot that it cooked the large granite top on the cabinet! And this is 7 to 8 foot long cabinet! I replaced it with the Pioneer SC-61 class D amp and solved that problem. I just changed that to the Pioneer VSX-LX504 and it runs even cooler with rail switching. Many people stick their amps in cabinets like this so on that front, it is a good thing for everyday living room use.

 

[Labjr]

I think rail switching started with car stereo amps and need for efficient amps with low idle current. About the same time Crest and QSC were making rail switching amps for high power PA so they could squeeze thousands of watts into small rack spaces. They've since gone to Class D.

 

[LuckyLuke575]

These companies just don't give a damn. Very sad. To compare, years ago I had a Pioneer SA-9500 amplifier. I took it to the local McIntosh clinic (where they'd test any and all amps if you brought yours in), and it did well. The dealer said something to the effect that "You've got a good amp, kid. Bring it by if you want to trade up, I'll make you a sweet deal." Or something like that. Of course, as a kid I couldn't afford a Mac.

I sent a letter (in those days no email) to Pioneer with a copy of the test report, telling them I was happy with their product. In return I got a typed hand signed letter from the president of Pioneer America (or his secretary) thanking me for being happy with their product. Along with the letter, Pioneer sent me a bunch of swag, a book about hi-fi they were 'selling', and a stack of catalogs on their line. They thanked me for being their customer.

I can totally relate. It seem's like most of the big companies and retailers are just a bunch of empty suits and generic employees that stick to 'policies' without any pride or interest in the customers / products. My experience with most of the audio shops in my area are just a bunch of guys with egos that look down their nose at you as if they're doing you a favor just to talk to you about their brands and how good they are, as if it's a privilege to be their customer!

The best service I've gotten if from a used audio equipment shop where the owner is the sole employee that's been running the store for the past 25 years. Whenever I have an issue or a question he's always available to help via phone or walk-in.

 

[skipost-it]

@amirm Maybe my T758 v3 with Upgrade from Silence ART Electronics will be the exception

 

[amirm]

@amirm Maybe my T758 v3 with Upgrade from Silence ART Electronics will be the exception

"Upgrade" would not be the word I would use.

 

[jsrtheta]

NAD were originally primarily a supplier of good, affordable equipment. They sort of inhabited the segment Schiit dreams of being in - supplying good equipment that punched above its weight for people that wanted performance without some of the cost. That was always a bit debatable in NAD gear but they did it an awful lot better than Schiit have. They left those roots behind many years ago.

I always put NAD a notch below Adcom. Both companies have tried to appeal to both the "mid-fi" and "high end" markets with some of their products (look at each company's preamp offerings over the years), while justifying the old saw "you're paying for the name".