Revel F208 Tower Speaker Review

[jhaider]

Plus @QMuse Since 2007 Audiolense time domain correction, corrects all channels towards the same time and phase behaviour.

At one point in space. That must really be very exciting for a single microphone, and maybe a graph reader too. For a human listening to music using two spatially separated ears and a brain, however...

 

[Beave]

1st use of they: The drivers
2nd use of they: Revel/Harman
their: SB Acoustics

Maybe you should take a closer look... They appear to be almost identical, albeit they are not identical copies. You are correct though when it comes to the hallmark ribs, I will edit that out. Because they aren't identical copies, there are certainly going to be some differences... But they look far more alike than not and SB Acoustics has spoken on this. The influence is more than apparent.

I have looked closely. I don't see any similarities beyond what would be expected for two similar-sized drivers.

Different frames, different magnets, different rubber surrounds, different cones, probably different motors on the inside. Hardly what I'd call identical, and I don't see any more similarity to SB Acoustics than to any other driver you could think of.

 

[airs]

I've maybe gone off the deep end today with measurements and software. It's been fun though! Turned the tweeter switches to -1db. Also I have no idea what I'm doing

Software chain is now REW -> EQ APO -> Voicemeeter -> Roon

Before (no EQ, "stock" everything except boundary switch for right speaker on):

After (EQ'd < 100Hz with both speakers, then > 100Hz per speaker, then a third level of EQ for the full range, turned tweeter switches to -1db):

Comparison, I believe these are good choices for colorblind folks? Let me know.

 

[LDKTA]

I have looked closely. I don't see any similarities beyond what would be expected for two similar-sized drivers.

Different frames, different magnets, different rubber surrounds, different cones, probably different motors on the inside. Hardly what I'd call identical, and I don't see any more similarity to SB Acoustics than to any other driver you could think of.

If you say so...

 

[Beave]

These say so:

 

[LDKTA]

These say so:

View attachment 62926View attachment 62925

Well those images definitely tell another story... Do you mind if I share these pictures? I’m going to show Bo and others who think Revel/Harman copied SB. I’ve seen other images from other angles shared among DIYers and they looked practically identical. Maybe they weren’t same drivers? Good to know though.

 

[Vuki]

I've maybe gone off the deep end today with measurements and software. It's been fun though!...

Listening impressions, before/after?

 

[RichB]

More Revel driver porn.
Here is the Salon1 mid-bass and an Ultima2 tweeter.

- Rich

 

[Laserjock]

How much would these be if they were totally sourced and built in the USA?

 

[Robbo99999]

I've maybe gone off the deep end today with measurements and software. It's been fun though! Turned the tweeter switches to -1db. Also I have no idea what I'm doing

Software chain is now REW -> EQ APO -> Voicemeeter -> Roon

Before (no EQ, "stock" everything except boundary switch for right speaker on):

View attachment 62905

After (EQ'd < 100Hz with both speakers, then > 100Hz per speaker, then a third level of EQ for the full range, turned tweeter switches to -1db):

View attachment 62906

Comparison, I believe these are good choices for colorblind folks? Let me know.

View attachment 62907

Looks good. You might be able to make it better by getting rid of the troughs between 250Hz down to 60Hz. I'd get rid of those by applying those 2 opposing Low Shelf Filters that I talked about in an earlier post. I'd put them in using Equaliser APO, first Low Shelf Filter would be 250Hz Q1 +5dB, second Low Shelf Filter would be 60Hz Q1 -5dB(minus), the second filter brings the boost back down to zero, with the end result being you will have pumped up that whole range between 60Hz-230Hz by about 5dB. I would then re-measure and let REW iron out the peaks to bring it down to your target. The end result may be that you might be able to get rid of all those troughs between 60Hz and 250Hz (although the sharp dip at about 230Hz may remain but to a lesser extent.

(Although have you already pumped up that area, because it looks less of a trough in that region than it did in your very first measurement you posted in this thread).

 

[vavan]

Does the F208 behave noticeably when playing back sibilants?
Does the blood shoot from the ears when Katie Melua sings "Nine Million Bicycles"?

nothing unbearable for me on that track (tidal)

 

[RichB]

nothing unbearable for me on that track (tidal)

I just listened to Katie Melua "Nine Million Bicycles" on the 126Be's and found no issues.
Her voice is recorded with good dynamics and some sibilants but I liked it.

One odd thing, sourced from QOBUZ through Roon the volume seemed to drop about 1 minute in.
Another album to add the to list.

- Rich

 

[GXAlan]

How much would these be if they were totally sourced and built in the USA?

The Revel's F208? I'd estimate 3x minimum if built in Northridge. Part of the problem is not just US labor costs, but that the fundamental infrastructure has been hit and is not available from cabinetry to assembly.

------
“The American idea is to do the designing and marketing, and let manufacturing be done by the most labor-intensive nation,” said [Sidney] Harman, who was undersecretary of commerce for Jimmy Carter. “We as a company reject that. We believe the garden in which innovation grows is on the manufacturing floor.”
- LA Times, Dec. 24, 1991

“Our consumer business has been struggling, and the Northridge plant was mostly consumer,” [Frank] Meredith, [Harman International CFO] said. “But the goal of this [downsizing] process is not to leave the Valley. It’s simply that the amount of overhead we have doesn’t support the amount of business we have,” he said.
LA Times, Dec. 14, 1999 (First move to Mexico of some assembly)

KKR, Goldman Sachs cancel $8B buyout of Harman
September 23, 2007 (Credit crisis hits)

"Harman International Industries Inc., the audio-equipment maker whose $8-billion buyout collapsed in September, said it would cut 500 jobs as it closed two plants. A total of 1,400 employees will be affected as factories in Northridge and Martinsville, Ind., close"
Feb 6, 2008

"This year it has been announced that manufacturing in Northridge will cease by the end of June."
Feb 5, 2010 - http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?27692-The-End-of-an-Era

"Development of AKG broadcast, music recording and live sound mics - as well as headphones for both the professional and consumer sectors - is now being carried out at Harman International's 'centre of competency' (CoC) for acoustics in Northridge, California. This sits alongside CoCs for electronics, DSP and video/control and the lighting division, which are based in Richardson, Texas and Aarhus, Denmark respectively. These feed designs to three NPI (new product introduction) centres - in Shenzhen, China; Bangalore, India; and Budapest, Hungary - which work across all Harman brands."
- November 22, 2017 - https://www.thebroadcastbridge.com/...fices-to-california-keeps-research-in-austria

"Samsung-Owned Harman to Close Facilities in Indiana, Utah and Europe...The company also confirmed that two of its manufacturing operations — its Crown factory in Elkhart, IN and its facility in South Jordan, UT — will be phased out by mid-2018."
September 19, 2017

"Harman Becker Automotive, a fixture in northern Simpson County along U.S. 31-W since it opened in 2000, will close its 150,000-square-foot plant in September. “This was their last North American manufacturing facility,” said Dennis Griffin, executive director of the Franklin-Simpson Industrial Authority. "
March 21, 2019

------------
The JBL 4319 is the last US made JBL (2010 introduction). It sold for $5000 in 2010 dollars.
The Revel also sells for $5000/pair but is in 2020 dollars (made in Indonesia).

Can compare weight + performance. We are getting more performance for the money by Harman moving production outside of NA, but there are certainly pros/cons. The Arcam AV40 and AVR390 aren't manufactured where they are designed, which goes against Dr. Harman's quote from 1991.

 

[Beave]

Well those images definitely tell another story... Do you mind if I share these pictures? I’m going to show Bo and others who think Revel/Harman copied SB. I’ve seen other images from other angles shared among DIYers and they looked practically identical. Maybe they weren’t same drivers? Good to know though.

I'm a little embarrassed to admit that they aren't my photos. I found them online sometime in 2019 when this same disagreement about the PerformaBe woofers came up on another forum. I can't find the pics online any more. If I remember right, they were somebody's pics from a show report, maybe CES.

There's another pic of the woofer available at Audioholics, in their review of the M126Be (scroll down to see woofer taken out of cabinet):
https://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/revel-performa-m126be

 

[Francis Vaughan]

I will have to say that the Salon1 mid-bass doesn't fill me with much delight. That is a pretty mid-quality looking bit of work. Very generic parts bin looking. Maybe the later speaker drivers are nicer.

 

[watchnerd]

Alas, the unit was too heavy for me to lug it up to my listening room so you have to settle for a plastic wrapped version of it in my test "lab:"

Based on this, I thought they were going to be 200+ lb monsters.

But they're actually pretty light for a floorstander, at 36 kg / 79 lbs.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Based on this, I thought they were going to be 200+ lb monsters.

But they're actually pretty light for a floorstander, at 36 kg / 79 lbs.

Yeah, my Hales Signature Two's, 48 inches tall, 11 inches wide and 21 inches deep, weighed 182 lbs. Plus a 24 lb external crossover. PER SPEAKER. About the same weight as each of my Soundlabs for what it is worth.

 

[amirm]

Based on this, I thought they were going to be 200+ lb monsters.

But they're actually pretty light for a floorstander, at 36 kg / 79 lbs.

It is not just weight. The issue is having a place to grab such a slippery and delicate unit. Some have ports in the right places to aid with that. This thing is also quite tall. As you try to lift it, it wants to topple over.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Eat more spinach!

 

[amirm]

Eat more spinach!

Growing some right now.....