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Revel Concerta C10 Review (center speaker)

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 44 24.4%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 63 35.0%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 65 36.1%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 8 4.4%

  • Total voters
    180

WeiW

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You need to measure your room to answer these questions. Your room has modes that cause certain frequencies to get amplified and others attenuated. And of course the mixture of sub and this speaker is an unknown.

The comment on attenuation was hypothetical by the way. I would use it as is and see where you land once room/wall impact plays its role.
Thx! I'm dumb about doing exquisite measurements for room... Can I trust the measurement graph and auto eq settings from the receiver's build-in function and its accompanied measurement mic?
 

richard12511

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Let's remember that the measurements are superb above bass frequencies.
I disagree here. The most important measurement for center channel performance is probably wide and even directivity, and these fail that metric horribly. Horizontal directivity is super narrow, and totally inconsistent across the spectrum. For pure on axis listening, it may sound kinda good, but even then, I'd likely prefer M16 with a phantom center. The only real thing centers do for me is anchoring the center image to improve off axis listening, and these fail at that.

Also, the bass performance is terrible, to the point where it's going to be hard to get a good subwoofer integration without losing 5dB of efficiency.

The performance isn't surprising, given the limitations of the design. I actually think the Revel engineers did a pretty job here(maybe the best MTM center we've seen?), but I think the marketers had more say in this design than the engineers did. Pretty much what I expected. A very good try at making a very poor center design work :(. If aesthetics are less important, the Infinity RC263 is a much better speaker, at least going by the measurements.

What is surprising is the super positive subjective impressions, similar to the JBL 4309. Not saying they're wrong, and I do very much appreciate them. Reviews like this where the objective and subjective sides differ are the most interesting.
 

richard12511

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Had a tough time deciding between headless and postman panther. I wish there was something in between.

On one hand, the spinorama looks pretty good above 500Hz(I think this is where the "fine" panthers are coming from). Vertical directivity is really good.

On the other hand 80-500Hz is still rather poor, and subs only fix the very bottom of that range. Most importantly though, the horizontal off axis width and consistency is terrible, and that is unfortunately (for me) the most important metric for assessing center channel performance.
 

richard12511

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Seeing all these Center speakers with laserbeam dispersion in a large part of their intended range, one has to wonder if that is because it measures better when played together with L and R speakers in a room or if it's just a case of companies ripping their customers off by selling turds?

I think it's just a case of management/marketing forcing engineers to produce an MTM design with a super tiny height dimension. The fact that even Revel engineers fail to get a good design tells me just how hard it is.
 

richard12511

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For a center speaker, yes:

index.php


That is laser focused beam. The Revel is much better in this regard:

index.php
Both look god awful to me :oops:. The Revel does look less terrible, for what it's worth.
 

Dj7675

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I disagree here. The most important measurement for center channel performance is probably wide and even directivity, and these fail that metric horribly. Horizontal directivity is super narrow, and totally inconsistent across the spectrum. For pure on axis listening, it may sound kinda good, but even then, I'd likely prefer M16 with a phantom center. The only real thing centers do for me is anchoring the center image to improve off axis listening, and these fail at that.

Also, the bass performance is terrible, to the point where it's going to be hard to get a good subwoofer integration without losing 5dB of efficiency.

The performance isn't surprising, given the limitations of the design. I actually think the Revel engineers did a pretty job here(maybe the best MTM center we've seen?), but I think the marketers had more say in this design than the engineers did. Pretty much what I expected. A very good try at making a very poor center design work :(. If aesthetics are less important, the Infinity RC263 is a much better speaker, at least going by the measurements.

What is surprising is the super positive subjective impressions, similar to the JBL 4309. Not saying they're wrong, and I do very much appreciate them. Reviews like this where the objective and subjective sides differ are the most interesting.
Just a few thoughts..
-I don’t really think of this as a true home theater center where there are no limitations. If there is flexibility for size/space there are many other 3 way/taller choices that are much better of course. This is a specific install scenario where a customer that wants small wall mounted speakers.... 1 for center and a left right. These are a nice solution in that scenario where the other option would probably the TV speakers. These would be night/day better than TV speakers.
-While 20 degrees is... not good, depending on the distance, it could be wide enough for 3 listeners maybe. Not great, but for many, good eough in a living room install for many that want a clean install.
-Soundbars it seems have pretty much killed these kind of speakers it seems. It would be interesting to test some to see what they have to offer for those that are forced to have one
-I still think you are underestimating the measured performance relative to its size/class. 6.5 lbs, 4 inches high, 3 inch drivers, actually very good distortion, nearly ideal PIR. And this will be installed about 2-3 inches from the wall providing substantial bass boost from the wall. I will see if I can take a quick measurement of it when I get it back against a wall and see if it hits the spec of -3db at 110hz/ -6db at 100hz. If it does that really isn’t that bat for integrating a small sub if it is up front near the main speakers.
It should only be considered if one needs a wall mounted solution and no full size speakers are wanted in a room. But under such conditions I think it is probably about as good as it gets for this type of speaker.
I just still think it is funny this little speaker is being compared to things like the RC263.
 
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amirm

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A very good try at making a very poor center design work :(. If aesthetics are less important, the Infinity RC263 is a much better speaker, at least going by the measurements.
You can't fit the RC263 in the same space. These are completely different products/applications.
 
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amirm

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Both look god awful to me :oops:. The Revel does look less terrible, for what it's worth.
They are very different as I reported in my subjective listening tests. The Revel is far superior in this regard.
 

stevenswall

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This seems busted. You'd want the vertical dispersion, but horizontally, and placing the speaker vertically to accomplish that will block the middle of your TV... Or you can just use it like a normal person who doesn't care about the narrow dispersion and cancellation lobes off axis and buy this wretched thing.

If someone has insight as to why a company like Revel releases busted stuff like this, I'd like to know.

Hopefully it's something besides "Well, we noticed we could make money and users are too stupid to realize it sounds more even up and down than left and right.
 

arisholm

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What is surprising is the super positive subjective impressions...
IMHO, it probably reflects that most people on this forum do not have a proper home theatre/movie system and are mostly concerned with stereo (or if they do have a HT setup, it is connected to their small TV and/or it is not from this decade), so they have no clue what a proper center should be like :) Only plausible explanation really. Amirm showed a nice center in a previous post. Extension at -3dB down to 50Hz is a minimum in my experience.. A good example: Paradigm Persona C and Adam Audio Tensor Center. I have both and cannot quite decide which one I prefer. But they are both pretty much full range speakers and weighing close to 100lbs due to the heavy duty bass woofers and cabinets.
 
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beagleman

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I think it's just a case of management/marketing forcing engineers to produce an MTM design with a super tiny height dimension. The fact that even Revel engineers fail to get a good design tells me just how hard it is.
I thought this speaker was not an MTM, but has 2 woofers, 2 midranges and a tweeter?

It lists crossovers at 400 Hz and 2.2 Khz.

Unless it is a 2.5 way like my one older Polk.
 

beagleman

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They are very different as I reported in my subjective listening tests. The Revel is far superior in this regard.

I have to agree. Anyone expecting center speaker dispersion that is great beyond a certain point, will be effectively sitting right in front of either the left or right mains speakers. And will be quite off axis of the video image also.

ALL home cinemas are compromises in many ways. Even in a real theatre, the center has purposely limited dispersion, but we are sitting usually a minimum of 20-30 feet from the screen, so it becomes a non issue (for the most part)
 

beagleman

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IMHO, it probably reflects that most people on this forum do not have a proper home theatre/movie system and are mostly concerned with stereo (or if they do have a HT setup, it is connected to their small TV and/or it is not from this decade), so they have no clue what a proper center should be like :) Only plausible explanation really. Amirm showed a nice center in a previous post. Extension at -3dB down to 50Hz is a minimum in my experience.. A good example: Paradigm Persona C and Adam Audio Tensor Center. I have both and cannot quite decide which one I prefer. But they are both pretty much full range speakers and weighting close to 100lbs.


In full disclosure, I have only been to one friends house with a "Proper" home theatre, with very little compromises.

But he has his set up where there are 2 rows of actual theatre seats, and the lower front row is about 12 foot from the screen.

No matter where you sit in that row, you physically are not able to go off axis all that much to begin with.
 

Dj7675

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IMHO, it probably reflects that most people on this forum do not have a proper home theatre/movie system and are mostly concerned with stereo (or if they do have a HT setup, it is connected to their small TV and/or it is not from this decade), so they have no clue what a proper center should be like :) Only plausible explanation really. Amirm showed a nice center in a previous post.
Or they have a proper theater... and have another room with a flat panel display and no room for a proper center in that room... Or a vacation home where they need something in a tight space where proper center speakers are not an option... Here is what happened I bet...
Marketing: We need a small, wall mounted speaker system for flat panels. Provides ridiculously small dimensions and said let us know what you come up with
Engineering team-List the problems they will encounter in making it sound good
Marketing: “Do the best you can”
And this is what they came up with within the constraints given. Actually pretty good given the constraints.
If you don’t have these constraints, many many better options. But if you do, it is nice that something can potentially sound pretty good. Just can’t overcome physics evidently with the mtm/mmtmm design, weather it be a 2way or 2.5way design.
 

arisholm

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I have to agree. Anyone expecting center speaker dispersion that is great beyond a certain point, will be effectively sitting right in front of either the left or right mains speakers. And will be quite off axis of the video image also.

ALL home cinemas are compromises in many ways. Even in a real theatre, the center has purposely limited dispersion, but we are sitting usually a minimum of 20-30 feet from the screen, so it becomes a non issue (for the most part)
Even Lyngdorf, who used to have only "life style" speakers IMO, now introduced this:
THAT is a nice center speaker. Same as the L and R obviously. I hope they do well with it, love it when companies have the guts to make proper stuff. https://lyngdorf.steinwaylyngdorf.com/lyngdorf-ls-1000/
 

arisholm

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Or they have a proper theater... and have another room with a flat panel display and no room for a proper center in that room... Or a vacation home where they need something in a tight space where proper center speakers are not an option... Here is what happened I bet...
Marketing: We need a small, wall mounted speaker system for flat panels. Provides ridiculously small dimensions and said let us know what you come up with
Engineering team-List the problems they will encounter in making it sound good
Marketing: “Do the best you can”
And this is what they came up with within the constraints given. Actually pretty good given the constraints.
If you don’t have these constraints, many many better options. But if you do, it is nice that something can potentially sound pretty good. Just can’t overcome physics evidently with the mtm/mmtmm design, weather it be a 2way or 2.5way design.
No problems with that, I agree about the compromises and the reasoning behind it (but the C10 is still not useful anywhere with those specs, really, better off without it - if it could do 80Hz properly then it would be a different story and that is possible even with a slim design. Maybe;-)

PS: even one of these tiny things could do 80Hz and well below as a point source and at a much higher SPL; https://www.devialet.com/en-us/phantom-speaker/phantom-i/
 
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Dj7675

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One of the more interesting polls regarding ratings... so far..
24% terrible
35% not terrible
36% fine
5% great
 

nathan

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This thing did much better than I thought it would. Does it compete with stuff that is twice as large and twice as expensive? Not really. Does it blow away anything in this size and price? Seems to be quite good for the class.

And it looks like on wall placement would easily get the bass response happy below 150hz, maybe even down to Revel's claimed -3 db at 110hz. Having done some information experiments, I believe in the double blind tests that found crossing over up to 150 hz a fine place to crossover when done well (intelligent sub positions, EQ, etc).

That being said, of course one wouldn't choose this speaker if one has more space and money.
 
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