Revel Concerta C10 Review (center speaker)

[jhaider]

Also worth noting, fit and finish is really good. Mounting hardware is well thought out as well. All in all it seems well designed for its intended use.View attachment 173132

Is that a measurement with or without EQ? I ask because I'd expect that (assuming a listening position measurement) to sound super bright.

 

[Dj7675]

Is that a measurement with or without EQ? I ask because I'd expect that (assuming a listening position measurement) to sound super bright.

That measurement is without EQ at about 3 feet from the speaker if I recall correctly (in different room) Measured where it is installed (green) you can see how it measures from around 12 feet averaged from 9 measurements. It is installed on the wall above my screen. The mount is great because it allows for a very large range of tilting down to the listening position. It is about as bad of a place to put a speaker near where the front wall/ceiling meet. I have had a few speakers there and this one actually measures the best at this location.

 

[Mauro]

I don't know why this is so hard to understand. The goal of this series of reviews is to solve the problem of needing a center speaker in a setup like mine:

I have the matching center speaker for the Revel bookshelves but there is no way, no how it can fit in that cabinet. There is just room for a speaker like Revel C10 and its competitors. Among those, they have all had severe directivity errors with other response errors on top of that. The C10 is least compromised in that manner.

This is NOT a discussion of what would be the best center speaker. That type of speaker does not fit this application. When I have room, I use them like this Revel C52 which weighs some 60 pounds:

Even the midrange is too big to go under these TVs!

We built his cabinet custom at a time when a 50 inch TV was large. So I originally thought I would put a proper center under it. But then 65 inch TVs became common so that is what is in there, leaving no room for much of a center speaker.

Those Revel speakers need to be vertical but then would make the shelves too big so they are on the side as a nod to looks. Not everything is optimized for sound.

And yes, we do need to sometimes categorize things. On testing AVRs, I initially compared their DACs to desktop units. But then decided to make a category for them and grade on a curve that way. Otherwise they would all fall in the category of "not recommended."

I love these series of reviews on center speakers. You are the only one to provide quality data on center speakers. And it is fundamental to have good slim center speakers for this use case.

I was also planning to buy a center speaker like the Revel c208, but it would sit much lower than the TV and I am not sold on the ventriloquist effect when actors mouths on the screen are 1 meter/3ft above the midrange woofer.

It would be very interesting to see also a review of Revel M8 as a center and the lcr8 for a secondary room.

Keep up the good work as always @amirm !
This site is a great source of knowledge. You just need to figure out how to put together an easy way to retrieve the information as your database of reviews is so large that google and duckduckgo start dismissing some reviews.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

I love these series of reviews on center speakers. You are the only one to provide quality data on center speakers. And it is fundamental to have good slim center speakers for this use case.

I was also planning to buy a center speaker like the Revel c208, but it would sit much lower than the TV and I am not sold on the ventriloquist effect when actors mouths on the screen are 1 meter/3ft above the midrange woofer.

It would be very interesting to see also a review of Revel M8 as a center and the lcr8 for a secondary room.

Keep up the good work as always @amirm !
This site is a great source of knowledge. You just need to figure out how to put together an easy way to retrieve the information as your database of reviews is so large that google and duckduckgo start to dismiss some reviews.

There is a review index on this site that is pretty good, although some reviews are missing from it too.

Also erins audio corner does reviews and has quite a few center channels. He also has a klippel nfs.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

I love these series of reviews on center speakers. You are the only one to provide quality data on center speakers. And it is fundamental to have good slim center speakers for this use case.

I was also planning to buy a center speaker like the Revel c208, but it would sit much lower than the TV and I am not sold on the ventriloquist effect when actors mouths on the screen are 1 meter/3ft above the midrange woofer.

It would be very interesting to see also a review of Revel M8 as a center and the lcr8 for a secondary room.

Keep up the good work as always @amirm !
This site is a great source of knowledge. You just need to figure out how to put together an easy way to retrieve the information as your database of reviews is so large that google and duckduckgo start dismissing some reviews.

Don't think would be problem with 208. It's that good.

 

[MacCali]

I love these series of reviews on center speakers. You are the only one to provide quality data on center speakers. And it is fundamental to have good slim center speakers for this use case.

I was also planning to buy a center speaker like the Revel c208, but it would sit much lower than the TV and I am not sold on the ventriloquist effect when actors mouths on the screen are 1 meter/3ft above the midrange woofer.

It would be very interesting to see also a review of Revel M8 as a center and the lcr8 for a secondary room.

Keep up the good work as always @amirm !
This site is a great source of knowledge. You just need to figure out how to put together an easy way to retrieve the information as your database of reviews is so large that google and duckduckgo start dismissing some reviews.

You should check out the klippel score web page. I have it saved in my tabs. Very useful tool and incorporates objective data and if it’s by Erin or Amir a subjective take. Not sure how far back Amir has gone with his subjective take.

I bought my stereo speakers on that score and man they are extremely excellent. Plus saved nearly 10 grand vs the other I wanted which actually had a very similar score .2 difference.

 

[Mauro]

You should check out the klippel score web page. I have it saved in my tabs. Very useful tool and incorporates objective data and if it’s by Erin or Amir a subjective take. Not sure how far back Amir has gone with his subjective take.

I bought my stereo speakers on that score and man they are extremely excellent. Plus saved nearly 10 grand vs the other I wanted which actually had a very similar score .2 difference.

Do you mean https://www.spinorama.org/?
Yeah i like it, but it is still lacking in features. I am not expecting Rtings level of search engine and tools, but a web tool with graphs would be helpful. I saw many attempts around ASR with tables, links and bullet points but nothing continuously updated.

 

[Mauro]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Revel C10. It was kindly purchased used by a member and sent in for testing. It is discontinued (released in 2008):

View attachment 171646

As you see, the C10 is quite small. It is a 2.5-way design with four mid-woofers, tweeter in the center and dual ports one at each end. I could not easily take the grill off so I did not attempt to do so. Even using a flashlight all I could identify was the tweeter. The grill is solid rather than being soft fabric you push in to find the drivers by feel.

It comes with brackets for wall mounting. Here is the back side:
View attachment 171647

Measurements that you are about to see were performed using the Klippel Near-field Scanner (NFS). This is a robotic measurement system that analyzes the speaker all around and is able (using advanced mathematics and dual scan) to subtract room reflections (so where I measure it doesn't matter). It also measures the speaker at close distance ("near-field") which sharply reduces the impact of room noise. Both of these factors enable testing in ordinary rooms yet results that can be more accurate than an anechoic chamber. In a nutshell, the measurements show the actual sound coming out of the speaker independent of the room.

Measurements are compliant with latest speaker research into what can predict the speaker preference and is standardized in CEA/CTA-2034 ANSI specifications. Likewise listening tests are performed per research that shows mono listening is much more revealing of differences between speakers than stereo or multichannel.

Reference axis was the center of the tweeter (aligned by eye). It is getting colder with the measurement room temp at 14 degrees C. Accuracy is better than 1% for almost entire audio spectrum indicating a well designed speaker.

NOTE: our company, Madrona Digital is a dealer for Harman products which includes Revel. So feel free to read whatever bias you like in my subjective remarks.

Revel C10 Measurements
Acoustic measurements can be grouped in a way that can be perceptually analyzed to determine how good a speaker is and how it can be used in a room. This so called spinorama shows us just about everything we need to know about the speaker with respect to tonality and some flaws:

View attachment 171648

As you will see later, there is a built-in high pass filter so there is not much bass to speak of. The rest of the response is well behaved though with a slight slope down. There is some disturbance between 1 and 2 khz which is likely interference from the ports. As noted before, I could not identify the location of said ports or midrange drivers so I have no near field measurements to confirm that. Impact on frequency response is very modest though so should not mess up tonality.

The good directivity gives almost textbook early window and predicted in-room responses:
View attachment 171649


View attachment 171650

2-way versions of these speakers has had horribly narrow horizontal beam width. The 2.5-way approach helps some here but doesn't solve the problem:

View attachment 171652

View attachment 171651

You see the choke point around 1 to 2 kHz but it is twice as wide as competing speakers we have tested.

Vertical directivity naturally is much better than most 2-way speakers:

View attachment 171653

Impedance measurements show the high-pass filter with the way impedance shoots up as we get down to DC:

View attachment 171654

That high pass filter pays dividends in keeping bass notes from causing a lot of distortion:

View attachment 171656

It does make the relative amount look worse though but that is because there is essentially no response at lower range:

View attachment 171657

I could feel the cabinet resonating strongly so we see that indicated in the waterfall display:

View attachment 171659

Remember that I noted cabinet/port resonances between 1 and 2 kHz. That is where we are seeing the bulk of resonances above.

Finally, here is the impulse response for fans of this graph:

View attachment 171660

Revel C10 Listening Tests
As soon as I started to play the C10, it sounded horrible. Quick confirmation showed that I had the EQ on from last speaker test. Turned that off and man, does this little speaker sound natural with great tonality. Yes, there is no lower bass and the upper bass is a bit tubby as a result. But the rest of the spectrum is beautiful with warm and correct tonality, very much similar to other well designed speakers I have tested (especially Revels). I felt little need to create or mess with equalization.

On dynamics ability, this was excellent due to not having any deep bass to bottom out the drivers. I could get it loud enough to create some physical sensation in my belly and sudden notes were surprisingly impactful. There is a lesson here is designing a speaker that is allowed to play only what it can do well.

On directivity, changing one seat over caused a slight tonal shift in vocals but it was not at severe.

Conclusions
The Revel C10 gets us closer to what a tiny center speaker with multiple drivers should be. Despite its budget class, clearly a lot of engineering has gone into making it deliver excellently smooth off-axis response (which summed). High pass filter is smart although it makes it less than a full (spectrum) speaker. If it had more bass, it would be a knock out. But it doesn't.

As a bonus, it is also quite small. I put it in front of our flat panel and it disappeared below its standard stand.

I am going to recommend the Revel C10. If you can find it on the used market, it can be a great option compared to a lot of junk designs out there.

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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

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I paired the C10 with Revel F206 front speakers. Sounds so similar, wide and open.
That’s incredible. I’d never tried without your review. thanks for reviewing center/slim speakers like this!
I had tried also an M105 put on its side 30 cm below the TV, because of my furniture layout and worked fine, but the source of sound was too distant from actor faces. Seemed to be detached from the picture.

I would be curious to see a review of the M8 as I also have Infinity TSS 750 speakers which look as if they were of the same line, but all sound so small and hollow. The center speaker with MTM configuration is easily identifiable. I just wonder if it is a matter of tweeter waveguide / 2.5 way crossover..

 

[amirm]

I am glad you found the review useful.

On M8, I actually bought an M8 SP2 a few years ago and had forgotten about it until now! I will get it in the queue to test.

 

[Mauro]

I am glad you found the review useful.

On M8, I actually bought an M8 SP2 a few years ago and had forgotten about it until now! I will get it in the queue to test.

Great, thanks! How many speakers and headphones have you stacked in your garage?
Must be an audiophile playground!