The regulation can be set higher. Your wall power can't
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Response to PS Audio on P12 PowerPlant Measurements (Video)
- Thread starter amirm
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Sorry, but I don't think ASR is attacking PS Audio. Amir measured the device and then PS Audio forum exploded and now Paul is trying to extinguish the flames in whatever way he can and in doing so he is just blowing more smoke. Why do you think they made this funny video in the first place?
Now, I understand that you are defending a right for anyone to buy a nice 6000 dollars automatic voltage regulator power strip and that is ok. It's a luxury item and it's a free market, so any price is fair game.
But would you allow your friend who makes 2000 dollars a month to save money and but a PS audio powerplant because he is lead to believe it will sonically improve his system? Deepen his soundstage and widen it? Make silky smooth highs? Whatever the jargon is.
Because that is what they are selling.
Power conditioning is one of those things which sits in a grey area. Unless your mains supply is hideous then most electronic equipment can manage well. However there are outlier cases for which power conditioning is useful and beneficial. The problem is you don't have to pay much for a perfectly good power conditioner. If people like the industrial design of the PS units and view it as a luxury discretionary purchase then that's fine but they are awfully expensive for what they do and they are only really useful for a small number of outlier cases.
As I see it, the point here is what amir says about service: it's all about his commitment with testing and evaluating equipment people send to him. Someone sent this unit and he is trying his best to fulfill that commitment, and this includes defending his measurements of course.
In addition to that, if one side gets personal and starts to play in a pseudo spy game spreading misinformation and not adhering to strictly technical reasoning, some conflict is inevitable, because the other part is forced to defend its position and reputation. It's sad but that's how it works, it's nature itself. Fortunately, this is not much of a big deal, we see much worse conflicts every day.
What I don't get is how it can be bad for the community, understanding the community as all human beings.
In addition to that, if one side gets personal and starts to play in a pseudo spy game spreading misinformation and not adhering to strictly technical reasoning, some conflict is inevitable, because the other part is forced to defend its position and reputation. It's sad but that's how it works, it's nature itself. Fortunately, this is not much of a big deal, we see much worse conflicts every day.
What I don't get is how it can be bad for the community, understanding the community as all human beings.
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Was going to say the same, that face screenshot is great.
charleski
Major Contributor
No. PS Audio's response effectively admitted that the HC outputs have higher impedance. And this is reflected in the power loss that was measured. We can leave aside all the hand-wavy voodoo, because PS Audio makes a specific claim about this which turns out not to stand up.
mstanley117
Member
Amir, your work appears to have stirred up the beehive!
Cut Paul some slack. He is selling AC regulators. Does it regulate? Yes.
I like him, he is a very nice guy and he helps muggles understand basics.
What Stereophile wrote about Paul's devices:
"with the P12 there was a major step forward in overall realism. With no change in volume setting, the sound was more dynamic."
Of course, if you have something worth $10k your subconsciousness tells you that is a good product worth the money.
He is also selling some amplifiers and loudspeakers. To prevent being accused of mobbing test one of his good product (he must have a good product for God's sake.
Amir, you said once that measurement told you that some KEF speakers were good but actually they sound not good. Maybe there is something to it? Maybe there is a factor you cannot measure with your fancy equipment..
You also said that in the video, that this Smith guy uses a few regulators in series which apparently is a good approach.
Why not put another one before them?
See this shiny golden darTZeel NHB-458 power amp., it's got 0.42% THD+N and costs $150k.
It's expensive. The only way to avoid your cruel tests is to get more expensive than you can afford.
If Paul's P12 costs $50k he'd be safe.
I like him, he is a very nice guy and he helps muggles understand basics.
What Stereophile wrote about Paul's devices:
"with the P12 there was a major step forward in overall realism. With no change in volume setting, the sound was more dynamic."
Of course, if you have something worth $10k your subconsciousness tells you that is a good product worth the money.
He is also selling some amplifiers and loudspeakers. To prevent being accused of mobbing test one of his good product (he must have a good product for God's sake
.Amir, you said once that measurement told you that some KEF speakers were good but actually they sound not good. Maybe there is something to it? Maybe there is a factor you cannot measure with your fancy equipment..
You also said that in the video, that this Smith guy uses a few regulators in series which apparently is a good approach.
Why not put another one before them?
See this shiny golden darTZeel NHB-458 power amp., it's got 0.42% THD+N and costs $150k.
It's expensive. The only way to avoid your cruel tests is to get more expensive than you can afford.
If Paul's P12 costs $50k he'd be safe.
Sgt. Ear Ache
Major Contributor
LOL..."nice guy." Oh brother.
I don't see any problem at all with putting these guys in the position of having to defend their uber-expensive products. Why shouldn't they have to actually prove the benefit of what they are selling?
I don't see any problem at all with putting these guys in the position of having to defend their uber-expensive products. Why shouldn't they have to actually prove the benefit of what they are selling?
solderdude
Grand Contributor
I like Paul too. He probably is a nice guy as well. In the core most people are.
The biggest problem here is that muggles will assume everything he says is correct info. It isn't. There is nonsense mixed with some truths. Muggles can't differentiate.
The problem with speakers is that no matter how good they are they can still sound crap in certain rooms. Crappy speakers may well be liked by certain people. Measurements can only inform.
Yes it is. 0.42% at max power means it can very well have very low and not obnoxious distortion at levels where it is used.
That said 0.42% at max power is far from obnoxious and the speakers will probably have more distortion at those levels.
$ 150k has nothing to do with quality. It has everything to do with audio jewelry and them not selling much of them and still having to make a living.
Nope... that's exactly what Amir shows. You can get better performance for a lot less money.
Paul would be safe, your wallet would not be if one is gullible enough to believe everything 'grandpa' pins you on your sleeves.
See my first comment...
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Funny choice of terms... Makes it sound like he is explaining how magic works. Problem is, none of this is magic, he just needs folks to believe it is.
But, do PS Audio equipment benefit from the power plant or not?
They would be wise to tone it done and not engage. There is no way to win this through shite flinging.
Vini darko
Major Contributor
Almost went full micky mouse. Channeling that inner EEVblog
Sgt. Ear Ache
Major Contributor
Amirm does a way better job of explaining things in his vids afaic.
DACs_Lover
Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2021
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I used to watch Paul's videos. From the day I found ASR. I Stopped watching Paul's.
It would be better if Paul showed P12 with audioprecision measurements.
It would be better if Paul showed P12 with audioprecision measurements.
Almost went full micky mouse. Channeling that inner EEVblog
AudioSceptic
Major Contributor
Typical of those who have lost the argument, they resort to ad hominem. On principle I would never buy a PS Audio product even if it was a brilliant performer and great value.
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