Thanks mate. I'm glad to be here. Fortunately, I never bought any of PS Audio stuff. There is a lot of snake oil in this industry but forums like this, keep educating people. Now a days there are so many "cheaper" and better options available (some from China) e.g. Topping, Denafrips and Kinky Studios...and the likes....keep rockin'And welcome to ASR, my dude.
Did you buy any of his hardware?
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Response to PS Audio on P12 PowerPlant Measurements (Video)
- Thread starter amirm
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mightycicadalord
Addicted to Fun and Learning
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I don't get why these companies just say "Well dang, I guess this product doesn't do what we intended it to, so were removing it from sale and working improving our in house development tools and expanding our knowledge to help bring you better products that we know are going to meet design goals and perform as intended. We will work with current owners of the product to make up for it's issues and do our best to make things right".
Like is it that hard to admit you were wrong? My entire life and I assume most peoples lives are filled with times when you have to admit you are wrong to progress. It doesn't mean that you've failed, it means that you've learned something.
So fundamentally it seems these people and their brands they push are unwilling to simply learn. I know of only one person off the top of my head that had been approached by ASR folks, acknowledge his shortcomings, and come here willing to learn and has integrated what he has learned into his content, and that was Joe N Tell.
Like is it that hard to admit you were wrong? My entire life and I assume most peoples lives are filled with times when you have to admit you are wrong to progress. It doesn't mean that you've failed, it means that you've learned something.
So fundamentally it seems these people and their brands they push are unwilling to simply learn. I know of only one person off the top of my head that had been approached by ASR folks, acknowledge his shortcomings, and come here willing to learn and has integrated what he has learned into his content, and that was Joe N Tell.
Ricardus
Addicted to Fun and Learning
If they admit they're wrong, then their whole product line falls apart.
You're assuming they have the capacity to admit being wrong. They will pretend to in videos, about something small, but never about science, or their product line.
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pinpoint_oxford
Active Member
I doubt PS audio believes they are wrong. Even if they did believe they are wrong, how likely would they admit it? The tobacco industry fought very hard to appear they were not wrong, and at least ps audio products aren't carcinogenic.
I think it has gone on to the ninth degree of their design with detail and they know it as well as we do. Specialized solution for a obscure issue being promoted otherwise with saucy information and prologue.
Have you done the math on your claims? Like the one about extra power if your mains sag? Mains sag is usually limited to less than 5%. So for $6000 you get .2db more power. Great deal. The rest of your assumptions are no better.
I think the difference between audio and race cars is that a lot of audio statements about S.Q. are just opinions of perceptions of sound quality. Opinions are not repeatably measurable. In racing, the clock cannot be argued with as to who wins the race.
You described the difference between music and a race car.
If you talk about audio reproduction gear and a race car: both have objective metrics that prove or disprove their capabilities.
Of course, in the race car setting, the driver influences the car's ultimate performance, whereas in the audio scenario, not so much. When the amp plays, all I can do is listen. A good driver in a lesser car could win a race with a better car.
Not sure what you are attempting to say.
There are objective key performance parameters in audio gear and race cars. Use them to pick. Disregard subjective parameters such as other peoples opinions or other peoples driving skills.
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MattHooper
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I followed the PS Audio thread on this review right up until they just recently closed it down.
It was closed due to people purportedly insulting one another and not moving conversations forward. But it was mostly a couple of engineers, glimmie especially, very politely asking all the right questions and pushing back with civility and actual technical reasons on the answers.
Much of it was greeted by the usual dismissals and insults rather than actual technical rebuttal, and by of course the PS Audio fans.
It was really the PS Audio regulars - especially of the more "subjectivist-who-cares-about-measurements?" type who seemed the most insulting.
Which is how it always goes with these things...though it will be blamed on the Dogmatic Objectivists "demanding" evidence.
It was closed due to people purportedly insulting one another and not moving conversations forward. But it was mostly a couple of engineers, glimmie especially, very politely asking all the right questions and pushing back with civility and actual technical reasons on the answers.
Much of it was greeted by the usual dismissals and insults rather than actual technical rebuttal, and by of course the PS Audio fans.
It was really the PS Audio regulars - especially of the more "subjectivist-who-cares-about-measurements?" type who seemed the most insulting.
Which is how it always goes with these things...though it will be blamed on the Dogmatic Objectivists "demanding" evidence.
pinpoint_oxford
Active Member
Their forums could better be described as a fan club more than a place for constructive discourse.
