If I remember correctly REL dabbles in snake oil, it’s not a company I would give money to.
-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Poll: Revel 226Be + sub or Revel 228Be (no sub)
- Thread starter JackStraw5877
- Start date
Yes, that's exactly what the SHD is designed to do. Performance-wise it's pretty much the same as the DAC3. The advantage is you get built-in crossover capabilities, two extra outputs to use those crossovers, and also Dirac room correction as well, all in one unit which simplifies the whole chain. They have decent tutorials[dual sub]too.
OP
JackStraw5877
Member
- Thread Starter
- #23
Your sentiment seems unanimous, abdo123. I appreciate your perspective as well.
Per Sancus's suggestion and sweetchaos's listed spreadsheet I have begun honing in on Rhythmik subs for this application if I go that route. I like what I'm seeing on their website so far.
OP
JackStraw5877
Member
- Thread Starter
- #24
Question: Would adding a MiniDSP in place of the DAC3 also render the HPA4 obsolete (disregarding the headphone output of the HPA4 for a moment)?
So MacBook Air > MiniDSP (XLR out to subs) > AHB2 (SpeakOn out to F226Be's)?
This reduction in cables and components seems good, and perhaps the wonderfully high specs of the HPA4 might be bottlenecked by the MiniDSP (for as good as the specs of this unit are). But I'm not sure this is the best way of thinking about this in particular.
So MacBook Air > MiniDSP (XLR out to subs) > AHB2 (SpeakOn out to F226Be's)?
This reduction in cables and components seems good, and perhaps the wonderfully high specs of the HPA4 might be bottlenecked by the MiniDSP (for as good as the specs of this unit are). But I'm not sure this is the best way of thinking about this in particular.
nerdoldnerdith
Senior Member
To use as a preamp? Yeah.
If you want to keep your DAC and pre-amp you can always use one of their digital options ( MiniDSP SHD Studio or MiniDSP NanoDigi, the later was recently discontinued).
Yeah the only reason you'd want it there is for the headphone out. There isn't really much point to a preamp in most cases nowadays. Plenty of good DACs like the SHD have volume control. In theory a preamp could add things like EQ, etc, but that is rare and in any case, the SHD does all that as well.
The SINAD of all these products(110-120dB) is so high that it's way beyond audible differences so I wouldn't really worry about performance bottlenecking.
OP
JackStraw5877
Member
- Thread Starter
- #28
Everyone's been extremely helpful. Thank you all... I believe this gives me enough to be dangerous for now.
Let us know what the end-result looks like.
OP
JackStraw5877
Member
- Thread Starter
- #30
Will do!Let us know what the end-result looks like.
Steve Dallas
Major Contributor
The SHD is objectively comparable to your Benchmark DAC and replaces both it and your preamp. It brings bass management / sub integration and Dirac to the table. Those are very powerful arguments in its favor as a solution for you.
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2019
- Messages
- 1,172
- Likes
- 2,041
If it helps, I have the F226Bes, AHB2, and miniDSP SHD. I got rid of my REL and integrated a real sub instead: Rythmik L12. Getting a second one if there is a Black Friday sale, not that I really need it in my room. I listen from 10 feet away and can crank up the system louder than I can stand. The clipping light on the AHB2 has never turned on.
I don't know how it gets better. My only complaint is that my TV output is super low so I have to crank up the volume when I use it. This is a typical problem though, AV tech is far behind home audio.
I don't know how it gets better. My only complaint is that my TV output is super low so I have to crank up the volume when I use it. This is a typical problem though, AV tech is far behind home audio.
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2016
- Messages
- 3,039
- Likes
- 5,093
Yes. Do that. You’ll also gain room correction, which is helpful even with great speakers.
I voted 228 and no sub, since, who says you can’t add a sub later?
I’d vote for F226Be and sub is optional. The F228Be is not a full range speaker (measurement wise + I used to own a pair) so most likely if you want bass down to 20-30Hz, you need a sub with the F228Be anyway. The F228Be is a fairy large speaker and I think it’s too big for 13 x 15 space. It was too big for my 16 x 11 space.
Steve Dallas
Major Contributor
Not arguing with you RE size. My room is 13x14' and the F228Be would be too big. I have F206s in there, which are the correct size for the room and listening position.
But... Is one of the OP's goals to be full range? It sounds like the application is stereo listening, and being there is not much program content below 40Hz, the lowest octave is optional for most people. The obvious exception is synth-heavy music.
I have 2 available pathways for stereo listening in my media room:
Laptop w/ Dirac Live -> Schiit Modius DAC -> Peachtree Nova 300 amp -> F206 speakers
Digital source -> Denon X4700H w/ Audyssey XT32 -> Peachtree Nova 300 amp -> F206 speakers with SVS SB2000 subs x2
Pathway 1 does not utilize my dual subs. The F206s produce meaningful bass down to 32Hz in this arrangement. This is the pathway I use most often, and for the music I enjoy, I do not miss the last 12Hz. It sounds great and provides plenty of impact.
Pathway 2 utilizes both subs with XT32's bass management. Bass extends below 10Hz in my room. It also sounds great, but I rarely notice the extra bass extension in stereo listening. If the system was not also used as a home theater, I would probably ponder the possibility I wasted money on the subs and receiver.
I can post measurements of both pathways, if anyone is interested in discussing further.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2020
- Messages
- 320
- Likes
- 351
I don't quite understand all the arguments that the 228's would be "too big" for the room, then saying the 226's with a Sub or two would be a better fit. If the issue is loading the room with too much sound pressure or low frequency, than using a sub puts you back in the same situation of being "too big". I understand the arguments that multiple subs can help with room nodes, but it also makes setup more complicated. Plus, it greatly compounds the placement issues, in a room that is already floor space limited. I think the decision comes down to whether the OP can live happily with the limited low frequency of the 226's (which may be enough). If so, run with them. If however, he really wants deeper low frequencies than get the 228's, install some acoustic treatment and use DCR to help tame the LF room node you will have. With DCR cutting the peaks off the LF, I think you would be very happy with the bass response of just the stereo pair of 228's. Realize that both the 226 & 228 will have lower/stronger in-room response then the anechoic measurements suggest. Also, DCR will be required if you go the sub route, as well.
I am going to be an iconoclast and make some comments.
If you got a REL subwoofer for free, you would not be disappointed. If you had a Bose acoustimass 5 subwoofer for free, you would. Criticism of REL is price (and snake oil cables). They actually lose their value used somewhat, so they are a better choice used. The ultra rich don’t care about losing some money on a trade to save time/effort and the bargain hunters are going for other brands with more extension. The speaker level inputs are great if you are pairing with amplifiers that don’t have subwoofer outs.
That said, I would recommend going with the 228Be. The reason is that the slight diffraction differences from having a larger baffle are unlikely to make a huge difference in blind testing. There are plenty of great speakers that aren’t as perfect as the Genelec’s. But we know that bass is important and the stereo/natural bass of the 228Be over a subwoofer which may be trickier to integrate cannot be underestimated.
THEN, the actual amplifier and speaker interaction is different. The 226Be dips to 3.7 ohms according @hardisj . In the 30Hz range, it is 14 ohms. According to Stereophile the 228Be is only 7 ohms at 30Hz. What this means is that for a given amplifier which can “double down” going from 8 to 4 to 2, that the harder to drive 228be is also like having a more powerful amplifier.
If you got a REL subwoofer for free, you would not be disappointed. If you had a Bose acoustimass 5 subwoofer for free, you would. Criticism of REL is price (and snake oil cables). They actually lose their value used somewhat, so they are a better choice used. The ultra rich don’t care about losing some money on a trade to save time/effort and the bargain hunters are going for other brands with more extension. The speaker level inputs are great if you are pairing with amplifiers that don’t have subwoofer outs.
That said, I would recommend going with the 228Be. The reason is that the slight diffraction differences from having a larger baffle are unlikely to make a huge difference in blind testing. There are plenty of great speakers that aren’t as perfect as the Genelec’s. But we know that bass is important and the stereo/natural bass of the 228Be over a subwoofer which may be trickier to integrate cannot be underestimated.
THEN, the actual amplifier and speaker interaction is different. The 226Be dips to 3.7 ohms according @hardisj . In the 30Hz range, it is 14 ohms. According to Stereophile the 228Be is only 7 ohms at 30Hz. What this means is that for a given amplifier which can “double down” going from 8 to 4 to 2, that the harder to drive 228be is also like having a more powerful amplifier.
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2020
- Messages
- 2,142
- Likes
- 3,205
Based on the ASR Nov. 11 Genelec 8361A Review, I would get two 8361A speakers instead of the Revel 226 or 228 and not worry about a sub. Genelec also has it's own EQ solution. No amps or Dac to buy saves some money as well.
www.audiosciencereview.com
It's a 50 degree dispersion instead of 70, but it looks like a nice value. @amirm also posted a video review here:
www.audiosciencereview.com
Genelec 8361A Review (Powered Monitor)
This is a review and detailed measurements of the Genelc 8361A studio monitor (powered active speaker). It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $4,995. The 8361A looks identical to the rest of the series except massively scaled up: It doesn't look it but it is extremely heavy. It has a...
www.audiosciencereview.com
It's a 50 degree dispersion instead of 70, but it looks like a nice value. @amirm also posted a video review here:
Genelec 8361A Review and Measurements (Video)
Given how nice the Genelec 8361A is, I thought I do a special video review of it: Text review and discussion at: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/genelec-8361a-review-powered-monitor.28039/
www.audiosciencereview.com
