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Outlaw 2200 M-Block Amplifier Review

John Galt

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#61
Not sure if it’s been answered before but I notice the spec of the Outlaw 2200 says max power consumption 600 watts. Obviously it’s a powerful amplifier, does that max power consumption spec correlate to how powerful it is? Does max power consumption tell us anything about how powerful an amplifier is?
I don’t think that the power consumption rating is a useful indicator of ‘how powerful it is’. I only had two years of electronics classes in a government school, so please feel free to correct me.

Different amplifier technologies have different inherent efficiencies/deficiencies. An incredibly inefficient and poorly designed amplifier could theoretically consume a lot of watts on your power bill, but may not be ‘powerful’ driving your speakers, nor sound good.

A well designed 200 watt class D amp (inherently efficient design) would most likely consume less power at the wall receptacle than a poorly designed 100 watt class A amp (inherently inefficient design), but that doesn’t make it ‘less powerful’.
 
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tmtomh

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#62
I'm curious - can @amirm or anyone else give an estimate of what that 85dB SINAD would jump to if that one 120Hz noise spike were not present?
 

Snafu

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#63
^ i was curious about that too
btw could you do 240V sinad ? looks like it's switchable.
thanks again
 

amirm

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#64
I'm curious - can @amirm or anyone else give an estimate of what that 85dB SINAD would jump to if that one 120Hz noise spike were not present?
It would not change since the overall noise level is higher than that peak. Otherwise SINAD would been around 98.
 

AudioSceptic

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#65

Francis Vaughan

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#67
That's class G as well. Any method that varies the rails in discrete steps is class G. Methods that vary rails continuously are class H. It's a different looking class G than what I've usually seen, which is the multiple fixed rails with diodes, but it's a different way to skin the same cat.
Yeah, agreed. It fits the definition, albeit in a rather crude way. I can't say I like it. The rails seem to switch with a rather large time constant on all the various triggers. It only looks at +ve going output swings to decide whether to switch or not (which is not all that unreasonable, but still looks odd.) It looks as if it has a limit on how long it will keep the rails high for when the output is swinging hard, as it integrates the output current as a trigger to disable the high rail. Probably fine for most music. But it won't keep up the high output for long. The power transformer may be a limiting factor here rather than thermal issues.
It is a very different beast to multiple rails, series devices, and commutating diodes.
 

DonH56

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#69
The power on the label for wall (input) power is an average, not peak value. You cannot really correlate it to the output power of the amplifier. Yes, you used to could, but specs changed and now manufacturers can spec an average rating, often as little as 1/8 the maximum power of the amplifier IIRC.
 

bigbag34

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#70
The power on the label for wall (input) power is an average, not peak value. You cannot really correlate it to the output power of the amplifier. Yes, you used to could, but specs changed and now manufacturers can spec an average rating, often as little as 1/8 the maximum power of the amplifier IIRC.

Yep that was what I was curious of. When comparing two amplifiers of the same topology and similar rated output power, I was curious if the max power consumption gave us any hints as to how much current the amplifier is actually capable of outputting. For example my boss has a Cambridge 851W integrated which claims max power consumption of 2400 watts. Compare that to a NAD C375BEE which has similar output power and claims an average power consumption of 640 watts. I understand I'm comparing average power consumption vs max power consumption but it seems like the Cambridge is capable of sucking a lot more power from the wall...Does that mean that it's significantly more powerful?

I am a rookie, young, and much less experienced than most of you all, and I have no electrical background; in fact I manage the shop floor for a snow plow manufacturer, and we have 40 full time welders so I deal in simple steel fabrication and welding - not exactly rocket science compared to what some of you all's experience and education is.
 

DonH56

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#71
Yep that was what I was curious of. When comparing two amplifiers of the same topology and similar rated output power, I was curious if the max power consumption gave us any hints as to how much current the amplifier is actually capable of pulling. For example my boss has a Cambridge 851W integrated which claims max power consumption of 2400 watts. Compare that to a NAD C375BEE which has similar output power and claims an average power consumption of 640 watts. I understand I'm comparing average power consumption vs max power consumption but it seems like the Cambridge is capable of sucking a lot more power from the wall...Does that mean that it's significantly more powerful?
Unfortunately there is no longer tight correlation so you have to depend upon manufacturer's specs. Preferably all channels driven, but those are harder to find these days for anything except monoblocks or stereo amplifiers.

You also have to consider the amplifier topology: a class AB amp will waste a lot more power than a class D amplifier, like 1/3 to half vs. 10% or less at maximum output. That is, your class D amp putting out 100 W may need 110 W or less from the wall, while a class AB amp needs maybe 150 W or more. Even worse for tube amps.
 

bigbag34

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#72
Interesting insight into this cool little mono amplifier. It looks to be very similar to the NHT A1 mono amp. Stereophile measured the NHT version of this amp in 2005 and here is John Atkinson's quote:

“The A1's A-weighted signal/noise ratio (ref. 1W into 8 ohms) was respectable, at 82.6dB,... The A1 exceeds its specified power, delivering 216W into 8 ohms (23.3dBW), 340W into 4 ohms (22.3dBW), and 440W into 2 ohms (20.4dBW), though it heated up rapidly driving the latter load.”
 

John Galt

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#73
Interesting insight into this cool little mono amplifier. It looks to be very similar to the NHT A1 mono amp. Stereophile measured the NHT version of this amp in 2005 and here is John Atkinson's quote:

“The A1's A-weighted signal/noise ratio (ref. 1W into 8 ohms) was respectable, at 82.6dB,... The A1 exceeds its specified power, delivering 216W into 8 ohms (23.3dBW), 340W into 4 ohms (22.3dBW), and 440W into 2 ohms (20.4dBW), though it heated up rapidly driving the latter load.”
I think you’re on to something here. The back is almost identical (except for trigger connectors), and you can see the toroidal transformer in the same location through the top cover.

D497ADA0-AEA4-446D-8CC4-8FD51993BEC9.jpeg
D4EEB204-6B96-4904-90AD-435618151A69.jpeg
 

KEW

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#75
Interesting insight into this cool little mono amplifier. It looks to be very similar to the NHT A1 mono amp. Stereophile measured the NHT version of this amp in 2005 and here is John Atkinson's quote:

“The A1's A-weighted signal/noise ratio (ref. 1W into 8 ohms) was respectable, at 82.6dB,... The A1 exceeds its specified power, delivering 216W into 8 ohms (23.3dBW), 340W into 4 ohms (22.3dBW), and 440W into 2 ohms (20.4dBW), though it heated up rapidly driving the latter load.”
I think you’re on to something here. The back is almost identical (except for trigger connectors), and you can see the toroidal transformer in the same location through the top cover.

View attachment 49954 View attachment 49955
Well, in 2005, Outlaw was selling the previous generation m200:
https://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_2/outlaw-audio-200-amplifier-4-2003.html


 

AudioSceptic

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#76
Unfortunately there is no longer tight correlation so you have to depend upon manufacturer's specs. Preferably all channels driven, but those are harder to find these days for anything except monoblocks or stereo amplifiers.

You also have to consider the amplifier topology: a class AB amp will waste a lot more power than a class D amplifier, like 1/3 to half vs. 10% or less at maximum output. That is, your class D amp putting out 100 W may need 110 W or less from the wall, while a class AB amp needs maybe 150 W or more. Even worse for tube amps.
I read somewhere that max efficiencies were 50% for Class A, 78% for Class B (with A/B somewhere in between, depending on bias), and 90%+ for Class D.

BTW you said "monoblocks". ;)
 

bigbag34

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#77

John Galt

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#78
Without the balanced input. The NHT version already had the balanced input of the m2200. Also my research indicates the only difference from m200 to m2200 was the addition of the balanced input. Looks to be a well established design and proven product. Very cool!!!
I was in the fence between an Emotiva A-300 and the Outlaw 2200s. After this review, and a lot of discussion both here and at Audioholics, I decided to return the A-300 today.

The Emotiva sounded good to me, and I’m not sure that I could tell a difference between the amps, but 2200 monoblocks it is.
 

DonH56

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#79
I read somewhere that max efficiencies were 50% for Class A, 78% for Class B (with A/B somewhere in between, depending on bias), and 90%+ for Class D.

BTW you said "monoblocks". ;)
Theoretical max for class A is 50% in push-pull, something like 27% single-ended. I thought class B was 67% but may be mis-remembering; I thought class C (not used for audio) was more like 78% max. I have the derivations someplace in the black hole used as my archives. Class AB is as you said going to fall somewhere between class A and class B depending upon how far the output is biased into class A. Class D is harder to determine; if you had perfect switches and no power in the drivers it would approach 100%. In practice I have seen from 80% to about 98% (the latter for lower-powered class D amplifiers).
 

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