No, it's just a different configuration. Radial capacitors are more popular, I guess because they allow for a more densely populated PCB.
-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Outlaw 2200 M-Block Amplifier Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
I was aware that caps need to be secured but hadn't seen zips used before. Like I said I know of zip ties failing due to heat but IME that included UV exposure from the sun. They'll usually fail within a year or two when exposed to the summer sun down here.. Most amps I know use glued caps but Adcom used a nice mechanical method in my GFA-545 II'sI think the caps will go bad around the same time the zip tie goes bad.
I like them versus gluing. I hate replacing components that are glued down.
As noted, they are needed for shipping. They are so heavy they can sheer off their pins if not secured. Or pull out of a cold solder joint.
mhardy6647
Grand Contributor
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2019
- Messages
- 11,372
- Likes
- 24,580
In the good ol' days, folks often used metal can twist lock electrolytics (often multi-section) 
P1020244 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
PP 6AQ5 console amp 021714 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/capacitors?filters=Brand=CE Manufacturing
P1020244 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
PP 6AQ5 console amp 021714 by Mark Hardy, on Flickrhttps://www.tubesandmore.com/products/capacitors?filters=Brand=CE Manufacturing
Oh yeah, all the big value caps I've used were radials, board space is critical.
Since I received my Outlaw 2200’s on Friday, I have listened to them for about 8 hours. I’m still in love with these amps! In researching these I’ve come across old posts on other forums where people have claimed these outlaw 2200’s are not “musical” and are better suited for HT use. I would have to respectfully disagree. They sound plenty “musical” to me. I have on hand to compare subjectively a Nuforce STA200 and a Crown XLS2502 and a Denon X6300H AVR. So in comparing all those subjectively I’d say they all sound “musical.”
Paul at PS audio says this about “musical” sounding amps:
“Musically pleasing amps generally have the following attributes: voltage-centric devices at their inputs (FETS or tubes), stable open loop performance (they don’t require feedback to keep amplifying), relatively high bias at their output stages.”
Do the Outlaw 2200’s possess any of the above attributes, ie low feedback or high bias at output? Are these attributes that can be measured? Are these attributes even related to an amps “musicality?”
Edit: I should have used the search function as a similar question and discussion exists here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/negative-feedback-bad-for-audio.11479/
Paul at PS audio says this about “musical” sounding amps:
“Musically pleasing amps generally have the following attributes: voltage-centric devices at their inputs (FETS or tubes), stable open loop performance (they don’t require feedback to keep amplifying), relatively high bias at their output stages.”
Do the Outlaw 2200’s possess any of the above attributes, ie low feedback or high bias at output? Are these attributes that can be measured? Are these attributes even related to an amps “musicality?”
Edit: I should have used the search function as a similar question and discussion exists here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/negative-feedback-bad-for-audio.11479/
Last edited:
They sound more “musical” when stacked. I think that really gets the flux capacitors correctly aligned with the magnetic pull of the moon.
JK they sound the same stacked and un-stacked just trying out a little audiophile humor on a Sunday morn
JK they sound the same stacked and un-stacked just trying out a little audiophile humor on a Sunday morn
Let's see. Can opener - check.
Can of worms - check.
Basically most of what is quoted is technical gibberish mixed in with misheard half truths and folklore. The best advice is to simply ignore such rubbish.
The tiny grains of misheard truth are that some people attribute magic effects to amplifiers that exhibit some forms of distortion. Low feedback is one of these. High output bias is a misunderstanding of the attributes of class A/AB/B. The bit about stable open loop performance is just woeful. As is the disdain for BJT output devices.
You can be reaonably sure that the Outlaw amp violates every one of those precepts. And is better for it.
I've heard the Outlaws sound better if you stand them on end so the main filter capacitors are upright. Thus allowing them to drain completely. Otherwise the capacitors fill with old stagnant electrons which are detrimental to the sound quality.
Last edited:
These look like super nice AMPS for the $/deal. BTW, they are Class AB/G. I read that whole thread -> Audioholics
A poster in the above thread said "Great amplifier... Built by the OE factory (Taiwan) that builds the majority of the Parasound products. He also builds multiple channel amplifiers for distributed audio by SpeakerCraft. We know the factory owner well, he is an experienced audiophile. Over the years we have sourced various amplifier products from his factory... "
https://www.outlawaudio.com/support/faq_2200.html
"A. The Model 2200 utilizes a newly designed (and proprietary) hybrid Class A/B/G circuit. It will provide Class A/B power up to 80 watts (which covers about 98% of most listening situations). Above 80 watts the Model 2200 will instantly shift into Class G amplification.
Q. Why was this approach taken?
A. This approach was chosen because we required that this amplifier be quite compact (less than 2 inches tall). In addition we insisted that the amplifier would not use any fans.
Q. Are there any downsides to this type of hybrid design?
A. The 2200 uses a proprietary A/B G design that does not have any audible downsides. The transition from Class A/B to Class G requires just 2 microseconds (NOT milliseconds) and this transition is 100% inaudible. This was imperative as many other hybrid designs produce audible side effects. Incidentally, at 200 watts the 2200 has less than .05% THD!
Q. What about output transistors and capacitance?
A. For output devices there are a total of six: four bipolar transistors rated at 15 amps each, and two robust power Mosfets rated at 40 amps each. Dynamically into 8 ohms the 2200 will put out 300 watts! In addition it has at its disposal 20,0000 (sic should be 20,000 probably - great catch @KEW! For all, this is cut/pasted from their site as is...) microfarads of capacitance."
Take a bank of these coupled with a nice prepro.... and you are good.
A poster in the above thread said "Great amplifier... Built by the OE factory (Taiwan) that builds the majority of the Parasound products. He also builds multiple channel amplifiers for distributed audio by SpeakerCraft. We know the factory owner well, he is an experienced audiophile. Over the years we have sourced various amplifier products from his factory... "
https://www.outlawaudio.com/support/faq_2200.html
"A. The Model 2200 utilizes a newly designed (and proprietary) hybrid Class A/B/G circuit. It will provide Class A/B power up to 80 watts (which covers about 98% of most listening situations). Above 80 watts the Model 2200 will instantly shift into Class G amplification.
Q. Why was this approach taken?
A. This approach was chosen because we required that this amplifier be quite compact (less than 2 inches tall). In addition we insisted that the amplifier would not use any fans.
Q. Are there any downsides to this type of hybrid design?
A. The 2200 uses a proprietary A/B G design that does not have any audible downsides. The transition from Class A/B to Class G requires just 2 microseconds (NOT milliseconds) and this transition is 100% inaudible. This was imperative as many other hybrid designs produce audible side effects. Incidentally, at 200 watts the 2200 has less than .05% THD!
Q. What about output transistors and capacitance?
A. For output devices there are a total of six: four bipolar transistors rated at 15 amps each, and two robust power Mosfets rated at 40 amps each. Dynamically into 8 ohms the 2200 will put out 300 watts! In addition it has at its disposal 20,0000 (sic should be 20,000 probably - great catch @KEW! For all, this is cut/pasted from their site as is...) microfarads of capacitance."
Take a bank of these coupled with a nice prepro.... and you are good.
Last edited:
Take a bank of these coupled with a nice prepro.... and you are good.
The challenge is in finding a "nice" prepro. There seem to be no good ones available.
These look like super nice AMPS for the $/deal. BTW, they are Class AB/G. I read that whole thread -> Audioholics
A poster in the above thread said "Great amplifier... Built by the OE factory (Taiwan) that builds the majority of the Parasound products. He also builds multiple channel amplifiers for distributed audio by SpeakerCraft. We know the factory owner well, he is an experienced audiophile. Over the years we have sourced various amplifier products from his factory... "
https://www.outlawaudio.com/support/faq_2200.html
"A. The Model 2200 utilizes a newly designed (and proprietary) hybrid Class A/B/G circuit. It will provide Class A/B power up to 80 watts (which covers about 98% of most listening situations). Above 80 watts the Model 2200 will instantly shift into Class G amplification.
Q. Why was this approach taken?
A. This approach was chosen because we required that this amplifier be quite compact (less than 2 inches tall). In addition we insisted that the amplifier would not use any fans.
Q. Are there any downsides to this type of hybrid design?
A. The 2200 uses a proprietary A/B G design that does not have any audible downsides. The transition from Class A/B to Class G requires just 2 microseconds (NOT milliseconds) and this transition is 100% inaudible. This was imperative as many other hybrid designs produce audible side effects. Incidentally, at 200 watts the 2200 has less than .05% THD!
Q. What about output transistors and capacitance?
A. For output devices there are a total of six: four bipolar transistors rated at 15 amps each, and two robust power Mosfets rated at 40 amps each. Dynamically into 8 ohms the 2200 will put out 300 watts! In addition it has at its disposal 20,0000 microfarads of capacitance."
Take a bank of these coupled with a nice prepro.... and you are good.
I'd have to take a look at the circuit to see if they actually do something different and new, but all class G amps act like class A/B amps until they cross into the power level that requires a higher rail voltage.
I noticed in the pics hosted and posted by prillaman.net, a few of the components and circuitry are different than the pics posted by John Galt. The internals of the 2200’s I received match The internals posted by John Galt. It looks like the older M-200 and older M-2200’s had some different components and design. Possibly lesser quality no name caps and SMPS for standby mode. The output transistors look the same but the caps are 100% a different brand than the old ones. Maybe the current generation/model is slightly more refined?!
Last edited:
Baloney, there's plenty of good ones. There's just a shortfall of SOTA measureing ones at a low price. We still have no idea how the $5 figure ones measure, they haven't been tested.
Since I am new to separates I’m not too versed in preamp output voltage vs power amplifier requirements.
Im currently running (2) Outlaw M-2200 mono amps. Preamp is an Emotiva PT-100.
Everything sounds great. However I’m curious if the Emotiva is driving enough current thru its output to make the outlaws truly sing. I spoke with Emotiva customer service and they said the PT-100 outputs 2-4 volts.
Is the PT-100 a sufficient preamp?
Im currently running (2) Outlaw M-2200 mono amps. Preamp is an Emotiva PT-100.
Everything sounds great. However I’m curious if the Emotiva is driving enough current thru its output to make the outlaws truly sing. I spoke with Emotiva customer service and they said the PT-100 outputs 2-4 volts.
Is the PT-100 a sufficient preamp?
OP
- Thread Starter
- #116
If that is the case, you are good to go.
The Outlaw needs 1.7V via XLR to reach max wattage. So it is fine.
LOL yeah it will deafen someone. My speakers are JBL Studio 580’s which are pretty efficient and have an amp friendly impedance curve, so yeah I’m probably all good, but being in my mid 30’s I’m still a young punk who likes it LOUD!!! But I still like high Fidelity even though I like loud
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll
