Outlaw 2200 M-Block Amplifier Review

[KEW]

I was in the fence between an Emotiva A-300 and the Outlaw 2200s. After this review, and a lot of discussion both here and at Audioholics, I decided to return the A-300 today.

The Emotiva sounded good to me, and I’m not sure that I could tell a difference between the amps, but 2200 monoblocks it is.

You probably saw it, but here are measurements of the Emotiva A500. I don't know if inferences to the A300 are appropriate or not. The biggest take-away for me is that the A500 had three channels with pretty good performance, and two that lagged behind by a good margin!
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...otiva-basx-a-500-5-ch-amplifier-review.10073/
In contrast, the Outlaw exhibited truly phenomenal consistency between all of its channels!

 

[peng]

The power on the label for wall (input) power is an average, not peak value. You cannot really correlate it to the output power of the amplifier. Yes, you used to could, but specs changed and now manufacturers can spec an average rating, often as little as 1/8 the maximum power of the amplifier IIRC.

Who knows? Manufacturers could apply their own standard, so it could mean any of a few possible conditions/combinations.

For the M2200, my guess is, the 600 W is the very "maximum" at very high distortions, or it is the "peak", i.e. average would be 300 W, when driving an 8 ohm resistor load. At rated load, class AB amp (including the Outlaw's class G at the high rail voltage) can have quite high efficiency, may be as high as 70-75%, and transformers can operate at say, up to 125% +/- overload for minutes if not hours.

If you look at the photo shots taken by John Galt, you can clearly see that the PS transformer nameplate says: 53.6 V (based on the higher of the two sec. voltage) and 4.5A, that is 241.2 VA. Based on say 30 W/lb (just one rule of thumb I read for a toroidal tranny), assuming resistor load, 241.2 VA = 241.2 W (again, that's for resistor load only, less for reactive load), the transformer alone would weigh about 8 lbs. According to Outlaw specs, the amp weighs 18 lbs so that sounds about right. That said, its all just guess work..., it is just a question how well can we guess based on available but limited information.

Example of a good Yamaha power consumption spec:
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/mx-a5000/downloads.html#product-tabs
Owner's Manual page 15.

Though far from perfect, I would be happy enough if others (D+M, Pioneer, Onkyo, Anthem, NAD, Arcam etc.) do at least what Yamaha did for their MX-A5000 power amp.

The power on the label for wall (input) power is an average, not peak value. You cannot really correlate it to the output power of the amplifier. Yes, you used to could, but specs changed and now manufacturers can spec an average rating, often as little as 1/8 the maximum power of the amplifier IIRC.

 

[bigLP]

Arent outlaw amps made in california by ATI? maybe they build the NHT as well.

 

[John Galt]

Arent outlaw amps made in california by ATI? maybe they build the NHT as well.

The 2200 is made in Taiwan.

 

[KEW]

Arent outlaw amps made in california by ATI? maybe they build the NHT as well.

Several of them are. Definitely not the 5000, 2200, 975 or 976!

 

[bigLP]

Thanks for the correction. I happen to have an ATI amp and thought I read that outlaw was one of their oem brands.

 

[KEW]

Thanks for the correction. I happen to have an ATI amp and thought I read that outlaw was one of their oem brands.

Looking at the products they are listing today, it looks like the 7220 and 7900 are the only two ATI amps. I believe they have had more in the past.
I don't believe the 7000 is an ATI sourced product, but am not certain.
I believe, among power amps, the 2200 (and the previous m200) was the only amp that were not ATI until the 5000 was released (maybe 2015?)!

 

[Labjr]

Would be nice if they used better quality capacitors in the power supply.

I don't worry about efficiency of an amplifier. If it sounds good, I use it!

 

[bigbag34]

Ok so I just had (2) Outlaw M2200’s delivered today.

I love them! They have some of the warmth of the Nuforce STA200 that I’ve been running but with far more available power. The Outlaw’s might be more “transparent.” As in certain recordings sound brighter than I’m used to, my guess is that these amps are allowing more of the downstream components and source material to show through.

Honestly, I only have positive to say right now. They stay cool and have gobs of power. The tonality is great to my ears. I love those big wide pancakes in there!!!!

All in all I have about $1700 invested total for my stereo in my basement man cave and I consider that a budget system and I think it sounds amazing!

 

[Labjr]

Far as I now, the Outlaw 2200 uses Sanken 2SA1386 and 2SC3519 output transistors which are bipolar.

 

[John Galt]

Far as I now, the Outlaw 2200 uses Sanken 2SA1386 and 2SC3519 output transistors which are bipolar.

Yep.

More internal photos here: https://forums.audioholics.com/foru...2200-mono-block-power-amp.112574/post-1368097

 

[bigbag34]

Indeed I looked up the wrong data sheet. Thanks for pointing that out. I’m going to edit my original post so as no confuse matters.

 

[Sal1950]

Could someone clue me as to what that component is with the material wrapped around it, under the silver S bracket on the far right?

One other item I found a bit wonky is using zip ties to fasten the caps to the pc board. I'm no amp designer expert but my experience with zip ties is they grow brittle and crack apart after being exposed to heat for a prolonged time. Maybe a non-issue in this application?

Otherwise to me they appear a really nice modern app design. In reference to the Audiopholics thread, I believe I'd keep these over the Emo's.
YMMV.

 

[John Galt]

Could someone clue me as to what that component is with the material wrapped around it, under the silver S bracket on the far right?

One other item I found a bit wonky is using zip ties to fasten the caps to the pc board. I'm no amp designer expert but my experience with zip ties is they grow brittle and crack apart after being exposed to heat for a prolonged time. Maybe a non-issue in this application?

Otherwise to me they appear a really nice modern app design. In reference to the Audiopholics thread, I believe I'd keep these over the Emo's.
YMMV.

View attachment 50221

I think that’s a thermal sensor on the far right in my second pic. That’s also where the amps get (rarely) warm first, so it seems to be well placed.

Thanks for making me worry about the zip ties .... They may be more for shipping than anything, I don’t know.

I also know that these amps are 3 for $800 right now, and every indication is that they’re about the best value available for what they are. I sent my other demo amp back and I think I got a great deal.

 

[amirm]

One other item I found a bit wonky is using zip ties to fasten the caps to the pc board. I'm no amp designer expert but my experience with zip ties is they grow brittle and crack apart after being exposed to heat for a prolonged time. Maybe a non-issue in this application?

I think the caps will go bad around the same time the zip tie goes bad.

I like them versus gluing. I hate replacing components that are glued down.

As noted, they are needed for shipping. They are so heavy they can sheer off their pins if not secured. Or pull out of a cold solder joint.

 

[John Galt]

I think the caps will go bad around the same time the zip tie goes bad.

I like them versus gluing. I hate replacing components that are glued down.

As noted, they are needed for shipping. They are so heavy they can sheer off their pins if not secured. Or pull out of a cold solder joint.

Emotiva A-300 that I just returned, caps vertical, and they look like they’re glued at the bottom. I’d rather snip the zip ties to replace the caps for sure.

 

[Labjr]

Vibration will cause heavy capacitors to break off if they aren't tied down. Especially ones with radial leads. Outlaw had to lay them down to fit in that low profile case. Good quality capacitors with axial leads are hard to find if they even exist at that value. Nothing wrong with zip ties. I just serviced a mid 70's ARP synthesizer where I rebuilt the power supply. Guess what they tied down capacitors with?

 

[cjm2077]

I've used zip ties on big caps or just big gobs of silicone to glue multiple caps together and to a board in order to pass shake and bake tests before. Even with the best quality caps, a big value electrolytic is heavy, and is long enough to have a pretty high moment of inertia. At one place I worked, we'd put every unit we shipped in an environmental chamber to do a heat and vibration test before shipping, and electrolytics were always a weak point. As long as they aren't exposed to too much heat (and caps shouldn't be getting that hot) zip ties should be fine. They're used all over the place in electronics to route cables and tie down parts.

 

[Labjr]

. . .Even with the best quality caps, a big value electrolytic is heavy, and is long enough to have a pretty high moment of inertia. . .

I mentioned quality not because of of weight but the ripple current, temperature and life expectancy etc. They just don't make good caps with with axial leads anymore because there's no demand.

 

[John Galt]

I mentioned quality not because of of weight but the ripple current, temperature and life expectancy etc. They just don't make good caps with with axial leads anymore because there's no demand.

Are axial caps better by design?