When using BTL-Mode please keep in mind what the technical specification of the ncore NC502MP module states:
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Opinions on Hypex Plate (FusionAMP) Amplifiers?
- Thread starter abdo123
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Do we need FIR if we can already get PEQ, crossover and delay? What is the benefit of FIR and IIR?
Proper FIR filtering provides linear phase (without wraps) and exact timing response to the burden of global sound delay.. Whether the linear phase and time correction advantage is audible or not is another question but the global delay can be a bad thing (for e.g. games) where you can't delay the picture to be in sync with the sound.
I don't know how it works exactly, assuming it depends on what you want to linearize. With Dirac Live, I got more sec delay, and then I don’t know if that’s normal or not.
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In implementing DRC, phase correction with FIR filters is most useful for correcting interchannel phase differences that tend to arise as a result of room asymmetries or where eg subwoofers are asymmetrically placed in a room, resulting in cancellation between their outputs at particular frequencies at the LP. It can be more surgical and effective than ordinary delay because it can be applied at specific problem frequencies.
Apart from the drawbacks that you mentioned @YSDR relating to delay of the whole signal potentially causing AV sync issues, the other penalty resulting from FIR phase linearisation is pre-ringing (aka pre-echo) which, when it crosses the threshold of audibility, can audibly affect the envelope (specifically, the attack) of transients and negatively impact on perceived dynamics.
The other main potential function of FIR-based phase correction is to linearise the phase of a whole speaker system, especially eg by correcting the phase distortion (non-constant group delay) caused by minimum-phase crossover filters.
Apart from the drawbacks that you mentioned @YSDR relating to delay of the whole signal potentially causing AV sync issues, the other penalty resulting from FIR phase linearisation is pre-ringing (aka pre-echo) which, when it crosses the threshold of audibility, can audibly affect the envelope (specifically, the attack) of transients and negatively impact on perceived dynamics.
The other main potential function of FIR-based phase correction is to linearise the phase of a whole speaker system, especially eg by correcting the phase distortion (non-constant group delay) caused by minimum-phase crossover filters.
Just to bump an old thread with some new pics...
I posted this on another forum so I figured I quote myself.
I'm happy with how they turned out.
The metal boxes and laser cut tops were under $100 total for the pair. The glue and wood finish is a little more.
I posted this on another forum so I figured I quote myself.
I'm happy with how they turned out.
The metal boxes and laser cut tops were under $100 total for the pair. The glue and wood finish is a little more.
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peniku8
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I'm very happy with my Fusion amps (have like a dozen). The dsp's noise floor isn't the greatest, so I had to pad my 97db/2,83V/m tweeters by 5db to achieve proper inaudibility of the noise (NF, listening distance <1m), but other than that I've had no problems. The soft limiter works well and is pretty transparent, at least on the woofers when I actually ran into it.
I recently built a lab amp with two FA123 for general speaker and driver testing and it's really convenient to have a 2x3 channel amp with dsp to test out ideas for stereo pairs on the fly. I made the front panel on my cnc but messed up when I forgot to activate the vacuum table for the engraving *face palm*
I recently built a lab amp with two FA123 for general speaker and driver testing and it's really convenient to have a 2x3 channel amp with dsp to test out ideas for stereo pairs on the fly. I made the front panel on my cnc but messed up when I forgot to activate the vacuum table for the engraving *face palm*
OP
- Thread Starter
- #69
I'm very happy with my Fusion amps (have like a dozen). The dsp's noise floor isn't the greatest, so I had to pad my 97db/2,83V/m tweeters by 5db to achieve proper inaudibility of the noise (NF, listening distance <1m), but other than that I've had no problems. The soft limiter works well and is pretty transparent, at least on the woofers when I actually ran into it.
I recently built a lab amp with two FA123 for general speaker and driver testing and it's really convenient to have a 2x3 channel amp with dsp to test out ideas for stereo pairs on the fly. I made the front panel on my cnc but messed up when I forgot to activate the vacuum table for the engraving *face palm*
what do you do?
peniku8
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what do you do?
Well I basically cut up the front plate of the fusion amp to mount the dsp modules to the front of my empty rack case and the amps to the bottom. Theoretically the 2U case would fit 6 amp modules, but you'll be running out of front plate space and the thing will probably heat up pretty quickly.
The front plate was simply fabricated on my cnc router, but you could do the same by hand in theory, which would just take more time (and the engraving might not be pretty if you hand hold that...).
I've decided that this was the last time I processed steel on it thou, because the coolant is annoying to clean off and I mainly process wood on it, which is really nasty when MDF dust mixes with the coolant oil residues on the gantry...
The results were a bit cleaner last time, when I made a load bank to test amplifiers with, heres an example pic:
OP
- Thread Starter
- #71
Well I basically cut up the front plate of the fusion amp to mount the dsp modules to the front of my empty rack case and the amps to the bottom. Theoretically the 2U case would fit 6 amp modules, but you'll be running out of front plate space and the thing will probably heat up pretty quickly.
The front plate was simply fabricated on my cnc router, but you could do the same by hand in theory, which would just take more time (and the engraving might not be pretty if you hand hold that...).
I've decided that this was the last time I processed steel on it thou, because the coolant is annoying to clean off and I mainly process wood on it, which is really nasty when MDF dust mixes with the coolant oil residues on the gantry...
The results were a bit cleaner last time, when I made a load bank to test amplifiers with, heres an example pic:
I meant what's your profession, what do you do in life
.I can see all sort of analyzers in the background!
peniku8
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I meant what's your profession, what do you do in life
I can see all sort of analyzers in the background!
Ah! Well I own a recording studio and a live sound company, but I've recently started getting into loud speaker designing/building trying to find an alternative, as the other two sectors are pretty dead for obvious reasons at the moment.
My grandpa was an electirian and he taught me a thing or two, which is why I also do those kind of things as a hobby.
The gear you see in the background is studio gear, this is my studio desk, which is in the same building as my work shop (convenient!).
MKW
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@peniku8
That sounds very interesting! On speaker design, I might suggest looking into works of the late Siegfied Linkwitz (linkwitzlab.com). I recently finished a pair of open-baffle subwoofers based on his design for Phoenix alternate subs. I equipped them to be used either with miniDSP DDRC-88A/BM thru Crestron (ATI) 6012 multi-channel amp or built-in Hypex FA123's. So the DIY Linkwitz LXmini's that I adore are now complimented with subs and all speakers can be driven with either miniDSP/ATI or FA123's. Following two design paths, one requires a traditional rack and many connections, while the other minimizes cables (two digital coax), ADC/DAC conversions (one DA conversion), connections (again only two digital cables), associated noise/distortion and is more of a 'lifestyle' system with Node2i as source/pre-amp (could be mounted behind the TV).
These sub cabinets each hold two Peerless 12" 830500 XLS woofers from Denmark (4 woofers total) in an open-baffle dipole cabinet. I've never heard bass like this before - so fast, delicate and textured. Doesn't 'load' the room, instead they work with the room. Every once in a while something exceeds expectations - this was one of those times. I've built many DIY speakers in my 50+ years, and many were quite enjoyable, but after my experience with the LXmini's, and now these OB-subs compliment, there is no question (for me) that open-baffle is the way to go. Speakers I've sold/retired since finishing the LXmini's two years ago: Elac, Martin Logan Motion XT, Buchardt S400, various B&W's, Tekton DI (factory upgraded version), Martin Logan electrostats, GoldenEar Triton 3+, SVS Ultra, Polk towers - they all sound like listening to speakers compared to LXmini. I did hold on to the Tektons a bit, the ML e-stats were the last to go (very recently) as they offer something special too, and the GE's were retired to the HT system (still have those). But the holographic imaging and recreation of space just doesn't compare. If you're going to build speakers, I encourage endeavoring to build the open-baffle variety. Modern references for the ideologies at play with LXmini and open-baffle are: Spatial, PureAudioProject, GR-Research and Kii Three+BXT.
I haven't progressed (yet) with integrating the FA123 DSP/amps. Eventually, I'll grow bored, and have a ready-made project to continue. I actually haven't even messed with the miniDSP built-in DIRAC either. I got the DIRAC Live account all setup and then finished the subs, since then I just want to listen.
That sounds very interesting! On speaker design, I might suggest looking into works of the late Siegfied Linkwitz (linkwitzlab.com). I recently finished a pair of open-baffle subwoofers based on his design for Phoenix alternate subs. I equipped them to be used either with miniDSP DDRC-88A/BM thru Crestron (ATI) 6012 multi-channel amp or built-in Hypex FA123's. So the DIY Linkwitz LXmini's that I adore are now complimented with subs and all speakers can be driven with either miniDSP/ATI or FA123's. Following two design paths, one requires a traditional rack and many connections, while the other minimizes cables (two digital coax), ADC/DAC conversions (one DA conversion), connections (again only two digital cables), associated noise/distortion and is more of a 'lifestyle' system with Node2i as source/pre-amp (could be mounted behind the TV).
These sub cabinets each hold two Peerless 12" 830500 XLS woofers from Denmark (4 woofers total) in an open-baffle dipole cabinet. I've never heard bass like this before - so fast, delicate and textured. Doesn't 'load' the room, instead they work with the room. Every once in a while something exceeds expectations - this was one of those times. I've built many DIY speakers in my 50+ years, and many were quite enjoyable, but after my experience with the LXmini's, and now these OB-subs compliment, there is no question (for me) that open-baffle is the way to go. Speakers I've sold/retired since finishing the LXmini's two years ago: Elac, Martin Logan Motion XT, Buchardt S400, various B&W's, Tekton DI (factory upgraded version), Martin Logan electrostats, GoldenEar Triton 3+, SVS Ultra, Polk towers - they all sound like listening to speakers compared to LXmini. I did hold on to the Tektons a bit, the ML e-stats were the last to go (very recently) as they offer something special too, and the GE's were retired to the HT system (still have those). But the holographic imaging and recreation of space just doesn't compare. If you're going to build speakers, I encourage endeavoring to build the open-baffle variety. Modern references for the ideologies at play with LXmini and open-baffle are: Spatial, PureAudioProject, GR-Research and Kii Three+BXT.
I haven't progressed (yet) with integrating the FA123 DSP/amps. Eventually, I'll grow bored, and have a ready-made project to continue. I actually haven't even messed with the miniDSP built-in DIRAC either. I got the DIRAC Live account all setup and then finished the subs, since then I just want to listen.
Skeptischism
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love the systems guys!! just a niggle, as ive seen it used here a few times lately. Do you think we could avoid using the term 'fast bass'? its meaningless and is actually in fact misleading. bass is bass, if it's faster, its nolonger that same frequency, or perhaps not even bass at all. sound travels at the same speed, whether it is bass, or treble; it's simply the speed of sound in whatever medium its travelling through (it travels faster through water/liquid and even faster through rock)
I think the word you are looking for is perhaps articulate?
Sorry, it's a pet hate
I think the word you are looking for is perhaps articulate?
Sorry, it's a pet hate
MKW
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@Skeptischism
The 20Hz bass is so fast, I had to add a -12dB dip at 15kHz on the DSP to offset the dB bump due to octave shift.
The 20Hz bass is so fast, I had to add a -12dB dip at 15kHz on the DSP to offset the dB bump due to octave shift.
peniku8
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@MKW Thanks for the recommendations, I've looked at the speaker designs on linkwitz lab before and they're very interesting, indeed. I've built three pairs of Jim Holtz's Bordeaux last year (which are somewhat similar three way open back designs), but sadly couldn't finish them yet. I will be using them with FA123 amps as well, they're just so flexible and were basically the same price for me as I would've paid for the passive crossovers including shipping to Germany, so that was a no brainer for me.
Ripole subs are also something special, as they offer actual low frequency directivity, which can greatly reduce room issues. The only drawback is their reduced efficiency, so they need a lot of power to go loud, which in turn might have you fight distortion in the end, but I'm sure 4 12" drivers are plenty.
In terms of speaker design I'll be focusing on studio speakers first, but naturally I also have a great interest in HiFi speakers, HT speakers and (since I'm a live sound engineer) PA speakers. I hope I can get my first design tested my Amir at some point in the future, that would be beyond amazing. I'm pretty confident with it.
Ripole subs are also something special, as they offer actual low frequency directivity, which can greatly reduce room issues. The only drawback is their reduced efficiency, so they need a lot of power to go loud, which in turn might have you fight distortion in the end, but I'm sure 4 12" drivers are plenty.
In terms of speaker design I'll be focusing on studio speakers first, but naturally I also have a great interest in HiFi speakers, HT speakers and (since I'm a live sound engineer) PA speakers. I hope I can get my first design tested my Amir at some point in the future, that would be beyond amazing. I'm pretty confident with it.
What is the cheapest way to connect a Raspberry Pi Streamer to the FusionAmps? The new Raspberrys where tested for bit perfect USB performance, but FusionAmps only take either SPDIF coax straight from a mini PC or balanced analogue/digital from a additional DAC. One option is to connect the RPi4 to a Focusrite 2i2, but it is not elegant because why aditional D/A A/D conversion? What SPDIF solution is cheap and good in this case, or is there another solution?
I am using the topping 10s w/o issue. Pc usb --> topping 10s SPDIF --> FAXXX. I get a little more volume since it is all digital. I have a Focusrite hooked up to the analog for measurements.
Topping D10s or even cheaper, Hifiberry Digi+ hat. They make a nice metal case for the Pi and the Digi+ hat as well.
Hello everyone, i'm planing a stereo diy project that implies a pair of hypex fusion Fa503
I will need a dac too, and my choice will go for a smsl dac with symetrical xlr outputs
I am confused how to connect the dac as i read that fa503 operates as master and slave speaker?
Will dac both xlr outputs be connected to one hypex master, and then i conect via optical to the second hypex slave?
Or will dac xlr left output be connected to left speaker and dac xlr right output be connected to right speaker?
Thanks
I will need a dac too, and my choice will go for a smsl dac with symetrical xlr outputs
I am confused how to connect the dac as i read that fa503 operates as master and slave speaker?
Will dac both xlr outputs be connected to one hypex master, and then i conect via optical to the second hypex slave?
Or will dac xlr left output be connected to left speaker and dac xlr right output be connected to right speaker?
Thanks
