Advice on DSP + Amp Upgrade for 2-Way Build (RSS210HF-4 & SEAS DXT)

[TomSR]

How is the speaker designed? I have the Seas DXT too, and found it quite picky when it comes to baffle design.
My point is, besides lack of power for the woofer - I tried this too, the 125 plate is way too weak for this - is there anything else that sounded wrong or not right?

Hey,

No, not really apart from the output level I really enjoyed how the speakers sounded. Wide sweetspot, nice phantom image, very punchy and very nice off axis aswel. I have the tweeter crossed quite low. If I remember correctly 1.2 khz or something.

What issues did you experience?

Below is a picture of the outside design. I also have schematics of the inside if you want.

 

[dualazmak]

As for very much flexible audio routing with low latency within PC, you may be interested in VB Audio Matrix (donation software, 680 x 680 Points Real Time Audio Matrix) for Windows which provides/supports so many channels of virtual ASIO (VASIO), virtual WASAPI Audio Devices (VAIO), WDM, KS, MME, Direct-X, IDMA, VBAN, and of course supports existing all the ASIO, WASAPI and other audio I/Os, in max. 192 kHz.

Almost all of the possible I/O routings with music players, DSP tools, and others, simultaneously (and/or independently) if you like, can be done even if you have multiple DSP tools and/or multiple physical DACs as far as they can be recognized as separate audio I/O physical/virtual devices by VB Audio Matrix.

VB Audio Matrix Coconut (also donation software) is the advanced (or more pro-oriented) version which supports 3112 x 3112 Points Real Time Audio Matrix for Windows.


I myself has been using VB Audio Matrix in my PC-DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier audio ring (latest setup can be find here including the VB Matrix routing) where I use JRiver MC as system-wide player, "EKIO" as system-wide DSP, multichannel 8-Ch DAC OCTO DAC8PRO together/simultaneously with simple tiny stereo DAC KORG DS-DAC-10 (and, if I need/like, I can also route via VB Audio Matrix to/from my OPPO SONICA DAC, ONKYO DAC-1000, RATOC RAL-24192UT1, TASCAM US-1x2HR, etc., all in max 192 kHz).

 

[Digital_Thor]

Nice build
1,2kHz, that's low, I crossed at 2, but the difference definitely is the size of the woofer, mine was a 5" in a 3 way design.
I followed the works of Heissmann acoustics:
https://heissmann-acoustics.de/en/test-seas-dxt-27tbcd-g/
Here he describes how the little DXT waveguide, works best if put in either a very narrow or very wide baffle - also seen in Kii3 and Grimm Audio.
I used it with an SB MW13TX in a very shallow cabinet with slanted cuts like yours too, giving me a smooth and even response both on and off axis.

Another reason I asked, is that I've seen so much praise given to specific equipment, when in fact it's most likely a dispersion, frequency response or something else related to the overall response, rather than "fancier" gear. So if you like your speakers, and they do the job, just juice up the amp for the woofer and be going - unless you really really want to fiddle with FIR - which might just give you more latency - which again is something rarely desirable in mixing/studio - AFAIK.

Definitely listen carefully to Keith_W - he has a great point in his post - especially regarding FIR being a nice to have or need to have.

Give Fouraudio a look... they use pascal amps and have DSP too - with FIR. Genuine Audio uses them:
https://www.genuin-audio.de/en/produkte/neo/
I think a powerful 2 way plate amp should be within your price range - unless you really want to have something separate.

By the way, do you have measurement equipment, which? and how do you measure when making the filter in your speakers?

 

[TomSR]

Nice build
1,2kHz, that's low, I crossed at 2, but the difference definitely is the size of the woofer, mine was a 5" in a 3 way design.
I followed the works of Heissmann acoustics:
https://heissmann-acoustics.de/en/test-seas-dxt-27tbcd-g/
Here he describes how the little DXT waveguide, works best if put in either a very narrow or very wide baffle - also seen in Kii3 and Grimm Audio.
I used it with an SB MW13TX in a very shallow cabinet with slanted cuts like yours too, giving me a smooth and even response both on and off axis.

Another reason I asked, is that I've seen so much praise given to specific equipment, when in fact it's most likely a dispersion, frequency response or something else related to the overall response, rather than "fancier" gear. So if you like your speakers, and they do the job, just juice up the amp for the woofer and be going - unless you really really want to fiddle with FIR - which might just give you more latency - which again is something rarely desirable in mixing/studio - AFAIK.

Definitely listen carefully to Keith_W - he has a great point in his post - especially regarding FIR being a nice to have or need to have.

Give Fouraudio a look... they use pascal amps and have DSP too - with FIR. Genuine Audio uses them:
https://www.genuin-audio.de/en/produkte/neo/
I think a powerful 2 way plate amp should be within your price range - unless you really want to have something separate.

By the way, do you have measurement equipment, which? and how do you measure when making the filter in your speakers?

Thanks!

Will definitely do some more research next week since I have a bit more time then!

And also will definitely take a look at Genuine Audio!

As for measuring equipment I currently use a Sonarworks mic with calibration file. When measuring dB levels I calibrate it with my Digital Sound 8930B.

 

[Digital_Thor]

Would you be willing to share your measurement setup and measurements?

I actually liked the Neo from Genuine Audio a lot, when listening at an exhibition, so much that the BMS coax they use, was the first coax I've ever bought.
Learned that the very high sensitivity of the tweeter, require some care, to avoid hiss, and that I prefer the KEF coax more - for smoothness and finesse. But the overall idea of having most of the higher frequencies coming from the same "spot", is beneficial for the sound - IMO.
You - I guess - kinda get a bit of the same with the DXT covering everything from 1200Hz and up - at least when comparing to speakers that often cross around 3-4kHz, where we are even more sensitive to errors.

Was your speaker from a kit, or something you figured out yourself?

 

[TomSR]

Would you be willing to share your measurement setup and measurements?

I actually liked the Neo from Genuine Audio a lot, when listening at an exhibition, so much that the BMS coax they use, was the first coax I've ever bought.
Learned that the very high sensitivity of the tweeter, require some care, to avoid hiss, and that I prefer the KEF coax more - for smoothness and finesse. But the overall idea of having most of the higher frequencies coming from the same "spot", is beneficial for the sound - IMO.
You - I guess - kinda get a bit of the same with the DXT covering everything from 1200Hz and up - at least when comparing to speakers that often cross around 3-4kHz, where we are even more sensitive to errors.

Was your speaker from a kit, or something you figured out yourself?

Sure, I'd be happy to share my measurement setup once I get my new amp in unfortunately, I lost the old measurements.

The speakers were a design I came up with myself. I drew inspiration from various sources, including the Grimm LS1. Eelco Grimm was one of my teachers at the HKU, so I had the opportunity to bounce some ideas off him during the process. I also analyzed speakers I personally enjoy and tried to identify which aspects of their designs appealed to me.

One of the key things I discovered early on was my preference for a lower crossover point than is typical in most designs. Initially, I even considered using a full-range driver as a tweeter down to around 200 Hz. While we did find a suitable driver in terms of distortion performance, its off-axis response had severe dips and peaks, which proved unacceptable. So eventually I went back to a more conventional setup using the DXT tweeter.

I wanted woofers that could dig deep but also offer tight transient response. That led me to the RSS210HF-4, which is more of a subwoofer by design. Because of that, I had to cross over fairly low to avoid running into breakup modes. That also meant the cabinet needed solid internal bracing due to the long XMAX and the energy those woofers can put out.

 

[Digital_Thor]

Cool... do that

Those Dayton woofers are really good, and the subwoofers from both Dayton and Wavecor are popular because of the low end, which is way easier to do with an active design, compensating for the much lower sensitivity.