End Game Speaker Quest - The Final Chapter

[MKR]

Hello All,

I decided it may be best to start a new thread to make the update not so buried in my other very long threads. For those new to the party and would like some (long) history, Part 1 and 2 threads can be viewed below ...

Pt 1 - https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...t-on-the-quest-for-my-end-game-speaker.38378/
Pt 2 - https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/end-game-speakers-the-quest-continues.52219/

Crazy to think that this journey started over 2 years ago, the time has flown by. Of course time flies when you are having fun, and well, it has been a blast. I have attended multiple shows and visited multiple dealers, most of the time I have had one or more of my sons with me. Has truly been a joy to share this hobby and those experiences with my boys. They also have the "bug" and already one of them purchased a pair of Revel F35s per my recommendation (great bang for the buck, solid design) and they sound superb, he is happy as a clam.

I have heard so many different speakers I have lost count, all different types of designs, with prices ranging in the hundreds to hundreds of thousands. In the end the decision is a custom system from Soundfield Audio. I should also note that my listening space ultimately is smaller than initially planned, as such I do not need same SPL level and so could drop my budget a bit (all good, money left over for new TV and pre/pro for the theater!).

The design of the EGs (aka end-game, the official name by Soundfield for the design ) has begun and is mostly finalized, but the midrange/tweet design is still open, coaxial vs planar. To help me decide, Soundfield will be sending me some demo speakers to try out in my new listening space. Will be a basic bass cab (cardioid of course) with interchangeable mid/tweet "heads". Demos are expected to arrive next 2-3 weeks, will keep everyone posted in the thread on my thoughts/experiences with the different designs. Very curious as to the differences I will hear. I also plan to perform some measurements with REW to better compare and balance what I am hearing vs real data, try to make it objective decision as well as subjective.

Below are the basic EG specs (per speaker) and some initial renderings of the design (render is only with the planar config of course). More to come! ...

Front woofers: 4x10" (passive cardioid, 40-300hz)
Side woofers: 4x12" (sealed, opposed force cancelling, 20-40hz ... similar to the Titan line array design for those familiar)
Mid/tweet: Above 300Hz ... 3" planar tweet + 10" planar mid OR 12" Coax w/BMS compression mid + 3" planar tweet
Rear: 8" planar with internal diffusion
Fully active via Hypex Fusion amplification/DSP (1100W)
EDIT: Front/rear variable directivity (user selectable via Hypex remote)

 

[PGansz]

I'm assuming your head will be higher than 34in (tweeter height). If so, raise the speaker or lower your seating position. Otherwise, good luck with the trials!

 

[Palmer]

Wow, ambitious project. Sure will be interesting, as it progresses.

 

[kemmler3D]

Looks pretty serious. True full-range towers. I will be interested in your judgment of the coax vs. planar. Coax might tend to measure better in terms of directivity, but a lot of people like the sound of AMTs / ribbons for some reason. Probably depends on the room...

 

[MarkS]

"I should also note that my listening space ultimately is smaller than initially planned"

We really need to know the room dimensions. Without that info, it's impossible to place any of your judgments of the sound in the proper context.

 

[AudioJester]

Is there a ball park price for the build?

The bass units look cool. Would be great with a LS50 meta on top! Dont need the top additional unit.

 

[dualazmak]

Very interesting and ambitious project; I do hope much good luck and success, and I am looking forward to seeing your actual progress!

I hope and believe you are living on a land of (almost) free from earthquake...

Many people are living in diastrophism countries/areas, however, including myself in Japan, and I am (we are) always much concerned about the physical stability of these tall-boy type speakers especially against lateral vibration (i.e. horizontal shaking) given by an earthquake.
1. The heavier the total weight,
2. The lower the height of gravity-center from the supporting base,
3. The wider the surface area of the supporting base (area covered by the supporting spikes/legs),
"the better" the stability against lateral vibration.

We can usually find/calculate on the catalog (or on spec-sheet) total weight and supporting base area, but we do not always know the height of gravity center; we need to speculate/guess the height of the gravity center.

 

[MKR]

I'm assuming your head will be higher than 34in (tweeter height). If so, raise the speaker or lower your seating position. Otherwise, good luck with the trials!

Thanks for your observation …actually tweeter will be at -42". Bottom bass module is taller than the top module (of course tough to see that in render without additional dimensions)

 

[MKR]

Looks pretty serious. True full-range towers. I will be interested in your judgment of the coax vs. planar. Coax might tend to measure better in terms of directivity, but a lot of people like the sound of AMTs / ribbons for some reason. Probably depends on the room...

Exactly, the room will certainly be a factor. Though the user selectable variable directivity (front and rear) will certainly help with that aspect (at least partly remove the room from the equation … of course full range cardioid also helps )

 

[MKR]

"I should also note that my listening space ultimately is smaller than initially planned"

We really need to know the room dimensions. Without that info, it's impossible to place any of your judgments of the sound in the proper context.

Absolutely agree! Will post room dimensions a bit later

 

[MKR]

Is there a ball park price for the build?

The bass units look cool. Would be great with a LS50 meta on top! Dont need the top additional unit.

$25k. If I wanted KEF I would have just gone with the Blades … as to top bass module, maybe not a must, but these are end game speakers, go big or go home

 

[MKR]

Very interesting and ambitious project; I do hope much good luck and success, and I am looking forward to seeing your actual progress!

I hope and believe you are living on a land of (almost) free from earthquake...

Many people are living in diastrophism countries/areas, however, including myself in Japan, and I am (we are) always much concerned about the physical stability of these tall-boy type speakers especially against lateral vibration (i.e. horizontal shaking) given by an earthquake.
1. The heavier the total weight,
2. The lower the height of gravity-center from the supporting base,
3. The wider the surface area of the supporting base (area covered by the supporting spikes/legs),
"the better" the stability against lateral vibration.

We can usually find/calculate on the catalog (or on spec-sheet) total weight and supporting base area, but we do not always know the height of gravity center; we need to speculate/guess the height of the gravity center.

Very valid concern of course with taller and heavy speakers, thanks for that. Earthquakes very rare where I live, but regardless stability still important to avoid accidents! The design will be very stable in its final form.

 

[Oddball]

Looks pretty amazing. Lots of woofers though. How will you make sure they play as a team?

 

[AudioJester]

$25k. If I wanted KEF I would have just gone with the Blades … as to top bass module, maybe not a must, but these are end game speakers, go big or go home

Got you!
What I meant is there is a hole in the market for an affordable cardioid bass module - think Genelec W371, Kii BXT etc. Something that could be easily set up with most bookshelves. Your lower bass unit looks like it would fit the bill!

 

[dshreter]

In your searches, what is it that you didn't find in existing speakers that you decided to go custom? Is there a performance attribute this will better address? Or is it better value for money? Both? Something else?

 

[napfkuchen]

Got you!
What I meant is there is a hole in the market for an affordable cardioid bass module - think Genelec W371, Kii BXT etc. Something that could be easily set up with most bookshelves. Your lower bass unit looks like it would fit the bill!

2x w371 + 2x 8351 Genelec will cost about 25k, exactly the budget. Cardiod down to 60 Hz, GLM and lots of configuration possibilities. You pay for the engineering expertise. So you pay s.o. the same money and he will make an even better DIY speaker?

 

[AudioJester]

2x w371 + 2x 8351 Genelec will cost about 25k, exactly the budget. Cardiod down to 60 Hz, GLM and lots of configuration possibilities. You pay for the engineering expertise. So you pay s.o. the same money and he will make an even better DIY speaker?

Err....ok

Pretty sure he demoed Genelecs (8351 or 8361??) and didnt like them. Should he buy speakers he does not like lol?

A custom build with modern technology and design concepts can be fun. Different people like to spend their money in different ways.

 

[MattHooper]

That’s awesome!

Having a custom build, I think it’s particularly exciting. I’d think there’s even some additional pride of ownership factor to owning an individual speaker nobody else owns.

It seems like soundfield is being incredibly accommodating.

 

[CapMan]

I didn't even know such customisation services existed - awesome!

Can you talk us through the process of defining the new speaker - how did you translate your listening experience with other brands and your preferences into a specification to be built?

Will you be sending it to Amir for a spin

 

[MKR]

Looks pretty amazing. Lots of woofers though. How will you make sure they play as a team?

I have full confidence that Soundfield will make sure the woofers “play as a team”