Monoprice HTP-1 Home Theater Processor Review

[audioBliss]

How loud do you listen?

98dB + 80W = 117 dB, and that's for just one speaker.

Klipsch are known for their fake high sensitivity so it’s probably closer to 90-92dB. Then that number is at 1 meter. At 5 meters even at 98dB sensitivity that would be 105dB with a full scale signal. It’s still very loud though.

 

[Sancus]

Klipsch are known for their fake high sensitivity

Quite. Stereophile measured the RP-600M at 89.6db, in contrast to 96db specification. Their highest sensitivity is mostly in treble too, where it hardly matters in terms of real-world power requirements.

 

[Costas EAR]

Besides the fake stated sensitivity, there is a drop of impedance in low frequencies, where high power is needed.
That means klipsch speakers can play loud with low power amps, but they need high power amps to play better and ..louder.
The fact is that they can reach really high spl's, but like any other speakers, a high power amp would be the best choice.

 

[SynthesisCinema]

Klipsch are known for their fake high sensitivity so it’s probably closer to 90-92dB. Then that number is at 1 meter. At 5 meters even at 98dB sensitivity that would be 105dB with a full scale signal. It’s still very loud though.

RP-8000F / R-28F (98db claimed)

What helps to make the RP-8000F an easier load than many other speakers is its above average sensitivity. I measured its sensitivity as 92.1 dB for 2.83v at 1 meter. That isn’t bad; it’s better than most speakers in this type and price class. However, it is significantly below what Klipsch specifies for it which is 98 dB for 2.83v at 1 meter. That is quadruple the sensitivity that I measured. Klipsch is using an in-room estimation of sensitivity that factors in a quarter-space environment over a greater distance.
https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/klipsch-rp-8000f/conclusion

 

[doodlebro]

Good? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...iew-and-measurements-of-nad-t758-v3-avr.8912/

Martin

What a great example of a comment that adds nothing. You have to do better than a single word and a link to a review someone else did... Regurgitating information someone else compiled isn't good content.

You talk about getting a T777, but did you miss that review too...? Both it and the 758 are in the same measurements bucket for all intents and purposes. It's slightly better than the 758 but certainly not enough to justify the premium.

When will these reviews stop being used in such unrealistic ways?

 

[markus]

What a great example of a comment that adds nothing. You have to do better than a single word and a link to a review someone else did... Regurgitating information someone else compiled isn't good content.

You talk about getting a T777, but did you miss that review too...? Both it and the 758 are in the same measurements bucket for all intents and purposes. It's slightly better than the 758 but certainly not enough to justify the premium.

When will these reviews stop being used in such unrealistic ways?

True but on the other hand why does a manufacturer allow such abysmal operating conditions in the first place? It's not like the master volume control wouldn't go even higher than 0dB. Oversight? Incompetence? Intent? This is the answer I got from NAD when pointing them to Amir's measurements:

"Tony W. - Product Support Manager

Hi Markus

Thank you for your feedback.

We are satisfied with the comments on our site. Please check out www.nadelectronics.com/dealers and arrange for a listening session and let YOUR ears decide.

Thank you for choosing NAD Electronics, HEART + SOUL You Can Hear.

Tony"

 

[RichB]

True but on the other hand why does a manufacturer allow such abysmal operating conditions in the first place? It's not like the master volume control wouldn't go even higher than 0dB. Oversight? Incompetence? Intent? This is the answer I got from NAD when pointing them to Amir's measurements:

"Tony W. - Product Support Manager

Hi Markus

Thank you for your feedback.

We are satisfied with the comments on our site. Please check out www.nadelectronics.com/dealers and arrange for a listening session and let YOUR ears decide.

Thank you for choosing NAD Electronics, HEART + SOUL You Can Hear.

Tony"

Don't worry your pretty little head about those measurements

- Rich

 

[doodlebro]

True but on the other hand why does a manufacturer allow such abysmal operating conditions in the first place? It's not like the master volume control wouldn't go even higher than 0dB. Oversight? Incompetence? Intent? This is the answer I got from NAD when pointing them to Amir's measurements:

I think calling the operating conditions abysmal is incredibly hyperbolic. Did you see the recent review for that small car amp? That was abysmal.

The T758 performs very well below -6dB and for most people who have set up their gain structure intelligently, they will never get past this volume.

Amir himself said that Dirac will likely make these NADs sound great despite their "poor" performance without it. I think we're at the point where people are cherry picking certain parts of his reviews and forgetting others...

The ironic thing is that most of the people who say it is a terrible receiver, abysmal, etc are the ones who haven't even listened to it. I won't have a problem with NADs response until everyone who is quoting this review meets them in the middle.

These reviews and the database Amir is building up is great stuff, but it's not some panacea of perspective that trumps everything else that is out there.

 

[Dj7675]

It's interesting that you mention that you weren't sure if you could tell the difference under 500 Hz. I found that the bass region was actually where Dirac's benefits over Audyssey were most apparent in my experience. Dirac cleans up bass and makes it sound tight and have impact, while Audyssey sounded bloated and boomy to me in comparison. I suspect that this difference is due to Dirac's emphasis on timing and impulse response correction as opposed to Audyssey only correcting frequency response.

I have found this to be true if you simply raise the subwoofer level. If you do this the frequency roll off of the sub no longer matches the main speakers. If you use the app and do matching curves to the sub and mains I don't find that do be the case. Dirac is easier do deal with in getting matching room curves for the mains/sub. With Audyssey you have to do some work arounds to get the curves to match. But the default practice you see with Audyssey is after calibration to raise sub levels by 5db without any other changes probably could lead to bloated bass. Sounds like a good excuse to do some testing.

 

[markus]

I think calling the operating conditions abysmal is incredibly hyperbolic. Did you see the recent review for that small car amp? That was abysmal.

The T758 performs very well below -6dB and for most people who have set up their gain structure intelligently, they will never get past this volume.

Amir himself said that Dirac will likely make these NADs sound great despite their "poor" performance without it. I think we're at the point where people are cherry picking certain parts of his reviews and forgetting others...

The ironic thing is that most of the people who say it is a terrible receiver, abysmal, etc are the ones who haven't even listened to it. I won't have a problem with NADs response until everyone who is quoting this review meets them in the middle.

These reviews and the database Amir is building up is great stuff, but it's not some panacea of perspective that trumps everything else that is out there.

May I kindly ask you to reread my post before you go all berserk again? I was talking about MV settings above -6dB and the fact that the otherswise solid performance of the 758v3 goes downhill from there...

 

[doodlebro]

May I kindly ask you to reread my post before you go all berserk again? I was talking about MV settings above -6dB and the fact that the otherswise solid performance of the 758v3 goes downhill from there...

TIL interpreting data realistically is going all berserk.

 

[Dj7675]

True but on the other hand why does a manufacturer allow such abysmal operating conditions in the first place? It's not like the master volume control wouldn't go even higher than 0dB. Oversight? Incompetence? Intent? This is the answer I got from NAD when pointing them to Amir's measurements:

"Tony W. - Product Support Manager

Hi Markus

Thank you for your feedback.

We are satisfied with the comments on our site. Please check out www.nadelectronics.com/dealers and arrange for a listening session and let YOUR ears decide.

Thank you for choosing NAD Electronics, HEART + SOUL You Can Hear.

Tony"

I got a very similiar response asking them to comment on the test results. By the way, are you markus767 on avsforum?

 

[markus]

TIL interpreting data realistically is going all berserk.

??? Operating the 758 above -6dB will result in pretty bad performance for a $1400 (MSRP) device. That's a fact and Amir's measurements show exactly that. NOT pushing the unit over the edge paints a very different picture. This is NOT reflected in Amir's measurements (because he continued measuring the unit at 0dB MV). Now besides some people not understanding the measurements, some misusing them, some even ignoring them, the actual question is "what is causing the unit's on-off behavior"?

 

[Martin]

What a great example of a comment that adds nothing. You have to do better than a single word and a link to a review someone else did... Regurgitating information someone else compiled isn't good content.

You talk about getting a T777, but did you miss that review too...? Both it and the 758 are in the same measurements bucket for all intents and purposes. It's slightly better than the 758 but certainly not enough to justify the premium.

When will these reviews stop being used in such unrealistic ways?

I started talking about getting a T 777 or 778 after better understanding the measurements of the T 758 and I like what I’ve read about Dirac. I understand the limitations and why Amir gave it a headless Pink Panther. I do think a different set of assumptions is needed to measure AVRs. But I also understand why he pushes. My growing understanding is why I posted asking about my speaker setup.

I do listen at high volumes (THX reference levels) when the dear wife allows. I listen at -6 to -9dB for most movies and -15 to -20dB for tv. I currently biamplify my front speakers which is why the 9-channel 778 interests me.

Perhaps a 758 and an Outlaw 7000x is a better fit. I would, however, love to keep a single box solution if at all possible.

Martin

 

[database]

I have found this to be true if you simply raise the subwoofer level. If you do this the frequency roll off of the sub no longer matches the main speakers. If you use the app and do matching curves to the sub and mains I don't find that do be the case. Dirac is easier do deal with in getting matching room curves for the mains/sub. With Audyssey you have to do some work arounds to get the curves to match. But the default practice you see with Audyssey is after calibration to raise sub levels by 5db without any other changes probably could lead to bloated bass. Sounds like a good excuse to do some testing.

I tried loading my same Dirac target with house curve (with 8 dB bass boost at the time) in Audyssey, but I still experienced bloated bass. It felt like Audyssey was "limiting" how much bass could be boosted (5-6 dB seeming to be the max for me) because higher boost just revealed its issues more. With Dirac it doesn't matter if I add a +15 dB boost to the subs with target curve or sub trims, as long as the limits of the subs are not being pushed. The bass remains clean no matter what absurd bass boost is used. That quality has actually been pushing me to use higher bass boost than I thought I ever needed at first.

 

[Dherrmann717]

@Martin - I held out for Dirac, I love it so much. I really suggest you check it out before you go with a different solution.

I've been using Dirac 1.0 for 4-5 years, and Dirac Live 2 is certainly improved. I need to take another measurement to dial it in, and then start playing with house curves, but it already sounds fantastic.

 

[doodlebro]

I started talking about getting a T 777 or 778 after better understanding the measurements of the T 758 and I like what I’ve read about Dirac. I understand the limitations and why Amir gave it a headless Pink Panther. I do think a different set of assumptions is needed to measure AVRs. But I also understand why he pushes. My growing understanding is why I posted asking about my speaker setup.

I do listen at high volumes (THX reference levels) when the dear wife allows. I listen at -6 to -9dB for most movies and -15 to -20dB for tv. I currently biamplify my front speakers which is why the 9-channel 778 interests me.

Perhaps a 758 and an Outlaw 7000x is a better fit. I would, however, love to keep a single box solution if at all possible.

Martin

You certainly would do way better with a dedicated power amp. Bi-amplifying on a receiver is just asking for it to perform at its worst. I used to run just a Denon X2200W and after upgrading, I realize I was pushing that receiver into distortion past -20dB.

I like reference volumes too, but my gain structure is matched up such that at -5dB on the T758, I am providing my A5175 with 1.2V which is what it wants for full power. I have never gone above -10dB for a few records, or movies. TV is obviously down closer to -30dB for comfortable listening. You should be able to match up either NAD with a great power amp that only needs 1.2V to stay out of the danger zone. I am in a small apartment and my speakers aren't crazy sensitive, so you probably don't need as much power as you think.

Also, Dirac really is worth it. I believe it makes the poorly measuring NADs sound better than almost every other receiver in the same class and below. The resolution differences to Audyssey XT32 aren't even comparable.

 

[markus]

With Dirac it doesn't matter if I add a +15 dB boost to the subs with target curve or sub trims, as long as the limits of the subs are not being pushed. The bass remains clean no matter what absurd bass boost is used. That quality has actually been pushing me to use higher bass boost than I thought I ever needed at first.

That's actually a bug in Dirac Live 2 (level relationship between target curves isn't maintained). It will be fixed in one of the next releases.

 

[database]

That's actually a bug in Dirac Live 2 (level relationship between target curves isn't maintained). It will be fixed in one of the next releases.

I verified the relative sub levels in REW post-Dirac (and post-Audyssey) and adjusted the sub trim to get it to where I intended, so that bug didn't have any effect on the original comparison I mentioned. But thanks for the info, it explains why the adjustment was necessary in the first place.

 

[Dj7675]

I verified the relative sub levels in REW post-Dirac (and post-Audyssey) and adjusted the sub trim to get it to where I intended, so that bug didn't have any effect on the original comparison I mentioned. But thanks for the info, it explains why the adjustment was necessary in the first place.

Not sure if you still have the REW measurements from you post Dirac and Post Audyssey test, but I think it would be interesting. If you do have them it would be better to probably post it in a current thread on the topic below rather than clutter up this thread any further. It would be interesting.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-audyssey-xt32-sure-always.11509/#post-332183