Midrange dome drivers banned ?

[Godataloss]

For sure, technically inferior materials can be engineered to perform at SOTA levels if you're willing to pay for it. Peerless makes some highly regarded corundum tweeters though that have been compared to beryllium tweeters. Flat response across a wide frequency range with low distortion.

Don't you think different materials have different tone or if they measure the same, they should sound identical regardless of material? Beryllium was the first material that I heard that I thought was mostly transparent sound wise.

 

[Schollaudio]

I stopped using midrange drivers a long time ago because the lower crossover point from the woofer to the midrange driver was in too critical a frequency range within the audio band, and was always too easy for me and others to hear as a discontinuity, and find distracting. I am a believer in the expression that "there is no crossover, like no crossover", but unfortunately every single full range driver that I have ever heard fell well short of expectations, and had too many discontinuities in the highs, nor enough bass - and ended up adding subwoofers crossed over fairly high plus add-on super-tweeters to sound OK - but the overall response of the full range driver was still quite bumpy.

Accordingly, in my own design work a compromise evolved. I began to use stereo subwoofers crossed over below 80Hz, which is a non-critical crossover point to the ear, and then I crossover the mid-woofer in the main speakers to the tweeter in the main speakers higher than normal at around 3.5KHz, which is again a better place for a crossover point. Not having any crossover point in the critical center band (80Hz to 3.5KHz) has been a great improvement in my opinion. Today there are an abundance of mid-woofers that I have found can cover this range very nicely.

What's your favorite midbass to cross above 3.5k?

 

[headshake]

Some color for this thread...

ja-0801 dome mid VS 5" paper cone + silk dome coax VS 3" hexacone cone mid+ Be dome


I took this measurement of the Be yamaha dome mid. The dome was messed up and I could not play it louder than this but we can see what it can do at a low level. Notice it can go quiet in 1ms between 500hz-3khz. The middle measurement is from a cheap SB A paper cone + silk dome coax. The last graph is a 3" mid cone made with nomex and some air gaps (hexacone) and a Be dome. The 3" cone mid can play lower than the dome but cannot decay as fast. The silk dome tweeter on the coax does keep up with the Be dome tweeter except for around 10khz. I do doubt I could hear a difference for small tweeters made of diff. materials- they all mostly decay in 1ms. I expect the same for a silk vs Be dome mid- if it decays super fast and plays at the same levels, how can I tell what is what as far as dome materials?

 

[headshake]

Looks like we have an idea of the max price: $730USD for one BlieSMa Be mid dome. I find solen is a little more expensive than some of the EU sellers so it could be a little less elsewhere.

M74B-6

BLIESMA M74B-6, Beryllium 74mm (3in) Dome Midrange. 97db, 6ohm, 121mm Faceplate

solen.ca

Just a pre-order though.

 

[snaimpally]

Hi!
How come that you can't find 3 way speakers with dome drivers anymore these days?
I own a good pair of vintage (coffin type) speakers - with 8" bass drivers, in a 35m2 living room. I find them excellent. I don't own very sophisticated measurements tools, but for what I've measured they're quite good.
Is this a mere trend, or are there logical/technical reasons to use only cone drivers?
JM

Generally, its easier to design a good 2-way rather than a 3-way because the crossover design is easier and you only have to blend two drivers. I think technology used to design speakers also has some something to do it - most tweeters can be crossed at around 2kHz, making them very easy to blend with a woofer, obviating the need for a midrange..

 

[EJ3]

Hi!
How come that you can't find 3 way speakers with dome drivers anymore these days?
I own a good pair of vintage (coffin type) speakers - with 8" bass drivers, in a 35m2 living room. I find them excellent. I don't own very sophisticated measurements tools, but for what I've measured they're quite good.
Is this a mere trend, or are there logical/technical reasons to use only cone drivers?
JM

I want to suggest a way to 'release' the sound from the coffin speakers. This was used by Jon Dahlquist to good effect (I have some DQ M-905's that came from his factory this way). Flocking the front surface of the speaker box (don't get it on the speakers, the speaker surrounds or the mounting surfaces). I have tried it on some of my other 'coffin' type speakers & it seems to be as good as having rounded edges. One day I will actually check the measurements but... And it's much easier to change if you don't like it.

 

[EJ3]

What is the black metal device place behind the 2 dome speakers from Yamaha?

I know that it isn't but it looks like CO2 cartridges.

 

[XDM]

Wharfedale Evo 4.2/4.3/4.4 series uses a soft-dome midrange, FWIW.

I've listened to the Evo 4.2. The midrange sound was glorious, but the speaker as a whole didn't sound very cohesive in nearfield which is how I usually listen.
I know Amir's measurements of its smaller brother, the Evo 4.1 weren't exactly great. Still, look at how beautiful these are:

 

[restorer-john]

most tweeters can be crossed at around 2kHz, making them very easy to blend with a woofer, obviating the need for a midrange..

2kHz is just way too low for any speaker with aspirations to handling a decent amount of power. Couple that with small boxes and inefficient bass drivers and all you have are toy speakers.

Throw a decent amount of full range music (not girl and guitar crap) at such little speakers, and your 'tweeters' will be lying in a smoking ruin on the floor.

 

[LTig]

2kHz is just way too low for any speaker with aspirations to handling a decent amount of power. Couple that with small boxes and inefficient bass drivers and all you have are toy speakers.

Throw a decent amount of full range music (not girl and guitar crap) at such little speakers, and your 'tweeters' will be lying in a smoking ruin on the floor.

What about the JBL M2? .... just saying ...

 

[restorer-john]

What about the JBL M2? .... just saying ...

OK. Dual voice coil professional compression drivers excluded...

 

[Speaker-Inquisitor]

Hmm, my compression drivers have only one voice coil, but they are 4", therefore i think that should be ok.
BTW the D2-Driver isn't that great in the region where he is crossed in the M2. The classic large format drivers have significant lower distortion there.

 

[PeterW]

There's really only one truly great dome midrange.

The Yamaha NS-1000M Beryllium, JA051300.

Can't be had, so what is your 2d and third choice? ATC and Volt are too expensive, any vintage recomandation?

 

[gene_stl]

There is a nice looking pair of Yammy mid ranges on fleabay right now for $450 the pair. They are always available. True, not factory new.

 

[JustJones]

There's a new French company using 3" mid domes with 12" woofer. Revival Audio.

 

[thewas]

There's a new French company using 3" mid domes with 12" woofer. Revival Audio.

View attachment 223065

Good classic 3-way 12"-3"-1" design, unfortunately not cheap at €4,490 / $4,572.00 US pair price.

 

[mhardy6647]

The midrange domes used by Braun/ads in the golden, olden days always have sounded nice to me (FWIW).

 

[dualazmak]

There's a new French company using 3" mid domes with 12" woofer. Revival Audio.

View attachment 223065

Looks very interesting since I still love and use Yamaha NS-1000 in my multichannel multi-amplifier project; you can find my latest system setup here on my project thread.

I just found this page on introduction of Revival Audio (fully sealed, right?) ATALANTE 3 and ATALANTE 5;
https://www.hifipig.com/revival-audio-atalante-loudspeakers/

Please let me know the link if you already found the exact web site of Revival Audio company.

I am especially interested in their new 12” (30cm) BSC (Basalt Sandwich Construction) woofer for which I would like to know the detailed information.

Even though my Yamaha NS-1000’s 8.8 cm Beryllium mid-range dome JA-0801 is still amazingly excellent (the best mid-range ever, IMHO), I would like to test and incorporate possible alternative or simultaneous "new woofer in sealed cabinet" for my Yamaha NS-1000’s 30 cm JA-3058.

I am just thinking about possibility and feasibility of making Revival Audio's ATALANTE 5 fully active for three amplifiers (by bypassing all the LC-network [and attenuators if exist]), and using "the new 30 cm BSC woofer in that ATALANTE 5 sealed cabinet" in my multichannel multi-amplifier setup together with or replacement for my present (but rather aged) Yamaha 30 cm JA-3058.

 

[thewas]

Please let me know the link if you already found the exact web site of Revival Audio company.

Revival Audio | Listen to the Next Level

Premium Hi-End audio from Alsace, France. With almost 4 decades of expertise behind numerous legendary models in top-tier Hi-End brands.

revivalaudio.fr

 

[dualazmak]

Thank you for the link.

I could download the owner's manual for ATALANTE 3 and found the cabinet is rear ported (bass reflex) design with the port cap for making it into quasi(?) sealed cabinet if needed. I assume ATALANTE 5 would be also ported (bass reflex) cabinet; I will soon confirm it by contacting with the Revival Audio people. I believe it would be rather easy to make them into "perfectly sealed cabinets" by simple DIY with removable tight-(screwed?)-gasket-thick-lid, if we would like.