Marantz SA-10 Review (SACD Player & DAC)

[stvnharr]

Hey Snoopy, people who might consider this player do not look at music the way you do. They want to play the disc itself.
But yes, if all one wants to do is rip the file to .dsf then your suggestion is perfect. And people who want to do only that probably already do that.

 

[Scytales]

The Denon is a fabulous disc, but it has a greater spray of spikes on its digitally derived 1kHz tracks (track 18,19 & 49) than either the Philips CD3, Sony YEDs or the CBS CD-1 discs. The absolute numbers may not be much different (same focusrite interface, same CD player -Marantz PMD-325 professional), but the picture sure isn't pretty with the Denon test disc on the 1001Hz track... The other two standard test discs give identical results.

Philips No3 test disc, 997Hz 0dBFS:
View attachment 192582

CBS CD-1 997Hz 0dBFS:
View attachment 192586

Denon Test Disc, Track 49 1001Hz 0dBFS:
View attachment 192587

Considering the Denon track is a digitally derived sine, it has a wide skirt around the fundamental and a bunch of spurious junk. The other two (Philips and CBS) are clean.

What this also shows is the 20 year old Marantz 'Professional' player and the low cost Focusrite A/D front end are giving THD figures virtually the same as what the SA-10 achieved. Notice the THD only numbers are excellent.

For the sake of interest (at least mine ), how does your best vintage CD players measure with the Denon Audio Technical CD as source signal ?

I have bought this same test-CD and a Boonton 1130 distortion analyzer, and the analyzer tells me my best optical disc player produce 0.0029 to 0.003 % THD+N (depending on the channel under test) at 1 kHz, 0 dBFS, with 30 kHz bandwidth and the RMS detector on the analyzer.

 

[VintageFlanker]

We would need to test lower cost SACD players to see where SA-10 lands.

You may have a look down there...

Marantz SACD 30n Measurements (SACD Player, DAC & Streamer)

Marantz SACD 30n Measurements Hi folks, Here is my objective analysis of the Marantz SACD 30n. This sample in particular has been gently loaned to me by Sound United France directly. It is a versatile piece of gear, being not only a SACD/CD player, but also a standalone DAC and a streamer...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Nutsfortubes]

Oppo where can I buy a new one? Oh they don’t make them anymore.

 

[stvnharr]

Oppo went out of business 4 years ago. However you can find new ones for double, triple, quadruple the original price.

 

[Nutsfortubes]

This device the SA-10, I liken it to a Super Bowl ring. They are in the same price range too.

Wrong the rings are $36K

Super Bowl 2022 Ring value: How much does the NFL championship ring cost?

The Super Bowl ring is not as expensive as some think, but its initial value is around thirty thousand dollars each, and the winning franchises of the Super Bowl cover only a small part of the manufacturing cost of each ring. Check here the Super Bowl ring price and more details around it.

bolavip.com

 

[Nutsfortubes]

I love reading comic books.

 

[Xyrium]

I would think that most of the inexpensive DACs available in the green or blue areas of Amir's charts would perform equal to, if not better than the SA10. However, it was not a poor performer, and is definitely a nice piece of audio jewelry. I most certainly wouldn't mind having one in my rack!

It may simply depend on your appetite to add yet another device and handful of cables to your setup though.

 

[MarcT]

Hmm, post removed. I wonder, by whom and why?

 

[BDWoody]

Hmm, post removed. I wonder, by whom and why?

Moved to the catch all.

 

[Sal1950]

Moved to the catch all.

You might link "catch all" Woody,
Not all know what your talkin bout.

 

[MarcT]

You might link "catch all" Woody,
Not all know what your talkin bout.

Yeah, I looked and didn't see any "catch all" forum.

 

[BDWoody]

You might link "catch all" Woody,
Not all know what your talkin bout.

Good idea!

Master Thread: Are measurements Everything or Nothing?

Seems like so many review threads get challenged with: 1. Measurements are not everything. 2. You all never listen. 3. I trust my ears, not graphs. 4. I don't listen to graphs. I listen to music. 5. You all must not listen to music at all. 6. Why don't you all buy the best SINAD gear? 7...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[GXAlan]

Jitter performance was disappointing:

The jitter components can easily be identified by frequency and sources found and eliminated. See how it was independent of which input is used so it means that the jitter is internally generated.

If you compare this to Marantz's SA-11s2 10 years earlier, you can see the noise floor is higher (could be the APxx555 vs what Stereophile uses) but the jitter spikes are lower in the older system since everything is under -120 dB

Marantz SA-11S2 Reference SACD/CD Player Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements The Marantz SA-11S2 Reference was assessed using Audio Precision's SYS2722 system (see www.ap.com and "As We See It" in the January 2008 issue), as well as, for some tests, our Audio Precision System One and Miller Audio Research Jitter Analyzer.

www.stereophile.com

 

[Miker 1102]

Completely irrevelant as only 3 mechanisms are available worldwide for about a decade now: Toshiba HOP-1200, (CD/DVD/SACD) Sanyo SF-HD850 (CD/DVD) and Sony KHM-313 (CD only). Sony probably left the OEM market, Philips did it already in 2007(!). The SF HD-850
is so cheap that customers use it also for CD only. No matter if you buy Yamaha, Denon or Marantz, it is the Toshiba HOP-1200.
BTW, all 3 drives have no BSL motors. Just the same small Mabuchi motor that sells for 1$.



See above. Same drive, HOP-1200. They gave the complete unit including the tray a fancy name to make the customers believe
they built it from scratch but they did not. Ever wondered why you could see nice photographs of the mechanics two or three
decades ago but not today? The KHM-313 sells for $12 and spins in some Accuphase...

This is very good information. So many of our products are built like this and we don't really understand it until a factory catches on fire and a whole industry is affected.

 

[Herbert]

A comparison:
This Sony Player, CDP-552/650 was Sony´s Flagship Model in 1985,
one of the first to provide digital output, Sony´s own linear magnetic transport,
made of die cast metal for the laser, no gear and a brushless disc-motor.
This transport was also used in cheaper players that did cost about $1200.

Top Notch back then.
Adjusted for Inflation the CDP-552/650 would cost about $7000 today, still cheaper than the Marantz.
I own one, still works. Not sure if the Marantz would in 37 years from now on...

Vintage audio laser

Site dédié aux lecteurs CD vintage

vintage-audio-laser.com

 

[stvnharr]

This Sony Player, CDP-552/650 was Sony´s Flagship Model in 1985,
one of the first to provide digital output, Sony´s own linear magnetic transport,
made of die cast metal for the laser, no gear and a brushless disc-motor.
This transport was also used in cheaper players that did cost about $1200.

Top Notch back then.
Adjusted for Inflation the CDP-552/650 would cost about $7000 today, still cheaper than the Marantz.
I own one, still works. Not sure if the Marantz would in 37 years from now on...

Vintage audio laser

Site dédié aux lecteurs CD vintage

vintage-audio-laser.com

That first Sony player was very well built, in every way too.
How much have you used that player? Is it still in every day use? Or is it just rare and occasional usage now?
Thirty seven years is a long time for a player.

It's just that your comparison to the Marantz SA-10 would also apply to most every player since that first Sony.
About the only thing to go bad in a good quality player is the laser. There are now few replacement lasers for old players.
It hits sacd players harder as the lasers tend to fail much sooner than cd player lasers.
I have a first generation Marantz sacd player, SA-8260, vintage 2003 or so. I replaced the laser in 2012, while they were still available. This player was still in everyday use until I bought a Ruby player a couple years ago.

 

[Herbert]

The Sony was not much in use, but a Nakamichi-OMS-5EII is in daily use since 1990 - 32 years.
Of course the belt driving the laser (never seen this in other players) had to be replaced, one years ago i put in a
gear to replace the belt, see Images. Later, the heavy brass gear was replaced with lighter version made of POM.

Also an extra bearing for the cheap disc motor aded, Electrolytic Caps replaced about 15 years ago.
Laser had to be replaced (I bought replacement lasers in 2000) but it was my fault
as i accidentally zapped it by ESD. The rest works fine.
So maybe not fair towards the Marantz but a friend has exactly the same Nakamichi that runs flawless
and was never touched besides replacing the belt. All adjustments were still textbook-perfect.
The old lasers last because they are cooled by the diecast laser housing.
It may also play a role that the light emitting area was bigger, the heat of the light was more evenly distributed.
Maybe someone with knowledge about laser emitting diodes and their evolution could chime in.

 

[stvnharr]

The Sony was not much in use, but a Nakamichi-OMS-5EII is in daily use since 1990 - 32 years.
Of course the belt driving the laser (never seen this in other players) had to be replaced, one years ago i put in a
gear to replace the belt, see Images. Later, the heavy brass gear was replaced with lighter version made of POM.

Also an extra bearing for the cheap disc motor aded, Electrolytic Caps replaced about 15 years ago.
Laser had to be replaced (I bought replacement lasers in 2000) but it was my fault
as i accidentally zapped it by ESD. The rest works fine.
So maybe not fair towards the Marantz but a friend has exactly the same Nakamichi that runs flawless
and was never touched besides replacing the belt. All adjustments were still textbook-perfect.
The old lasers last because they are cooled by the diecast laser housing.
It may also play a role that the light emitting area was bigger, the heat of the light was more evenly distributed.
Maybe someone with knowledge about laser emitting diodes and their evolution could chime in.

Yes, Nakamichi was top quality for sure.
Chris, anatech over at DIYAudio, was a service technician for most everything for years. He knew the cd players from the 80's and 90's inside out. He always used to praise the quality of the Nakamichi players.

 

[srrxr71]

The Sony was not much in use, but a Nakamichi-OMS-5EII is in daily use since 1990 - 32 years.
Of course the belt driving the laser (never seen this in other players) had to be replaced, one years ago i put in a
gear to replace the belt, see Images. Later, the heavy brass gear was replaced with lighter version made of POM.

Also an extra bearing for the cheap disc motor aded, Electrolytic Caps replaced about 15 years ago.
Laser had to be replaced (I bought replacement lasers in 2000) but it was my fault
as i accidentally zapped it by ESD. The rest works fine.
So maybe not fair towards the Marantz but a friend has exactly the same Nakamichi that runs flawless
and was never touched besides replacing the belt. All adjustments were still textbook-perfect.
The old lasers last because they are cooled by the diecast laser housing.
It may also play a role that the light emitting area was bigger, the heat of the light was more evenly distributed.
Maybe someone with knowledge about laser emitting diodes and their evolution could chime in.
View attachment 247293View attachment 247294View attachment 247295

Should be putting NSFW before you post these kind of pictures! Hehe