Yes, same ICs for sure, only the C30 and the AV10 (even better) has the much better ones (in terms of specs).
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Marantz Cinema 30
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What is Audyssey One?
Great Sun Jester
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Yes, but it depends... Any midrange Marantz avrs can drive 4 ohm speakers depending on the users demand, that in turn, depends on a few factors including their listening habit. That is true for just about any amps, not just avrs.
If the user has the right speakers, listen to miderately loud spl, sitting clos such as less than say 2.5 meters, even the lower models can do the job.
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Can confirm, I glance at it often to see what sound mode is being used. And I really try to avoid bringing up the ultra-bright OSD during an HDR movie.
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Yeah, I'm left with just one speaker that demands more from the AVR than my others (my center, a Buchardt S400 MKII). I know these AVRs can handle it, however there are 8 other speakers asking for power during an immersive movie. I plan on amplifying it externally, but it's hard to quantify the benefit until it's hooked up.
Right, it absolutely depends.... Ideally, each users should estimate the voltage and current requirements to estimate the need for the individual case. It can be done using online calculators, or by calculations (better).
Vacceo
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That is true in theory, but in practice, the load will depend on the particular material.
Films do not typically push content on every channel at the same time except in short moments.
However, if those short moments show up often and you have a large room you want at a decent SPL due to distance to the speakers, then yes, I can see the need to add extra watts.
If one knows the speaker's sensitivity, such as 87 dB/2.83 V/m, it is easy to calculate the voltage and current, at impedance 8,6,4,or 2 ohms, for the required spl at a given distance. That way, we know the kind of amps we need to do the job.
Online calculators are great, but they typically based the calculations on 8 ohm nominal speakers, so the results may not be as conclusive, and someone would rush to say, sure you got the power but your avr may not have the current capability, sort of bs in many cases but could also be valid in many cases.
Obviously, voltage, current, power, impedance, are mathematically related, I just find using V and I are better, just my opinion. It potentially avoids arguments that might confuse the issue.
Online calculators are great, but they typically based the calculations on 8 ohm nominal speakers, so the results may not be as conclusive, and someone would rush to say, sure you got the power but your avr may not have the current capability, sort of bs in many cases but could also be valid in many cases.
Obviously, voltage, current, power, impedance, are mathematically related, I just find using V and I are better, just my opinion. It potentially avoids arguments that might confuse the issue.
The higher models like this have a drop down door with a full display. Think of it as an extra display. Even on my older Marantz SR7012, you can turn the blue ring on/off and dim or turn off the display.
That's too bad. It always reminds me of TRON.
Marantz also ditched the 7.1 inputs of the SR8015. I use my 7.1 inputs with a Lexicon MC-1 for Logic 7, which is still the best 2-channel upmixer I've ever heard. It also lets me play Star Wars in old school Pro Logic (set up with 4 pairs of arrayed surrounds here) or THX Cinema so Star Wars 1977-82 are covered for original theatrical style playback on the "Despecialized" versions.
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Vacceo
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I think you mentioned it on another thread, but I run some numbers yesterday and I think, that a Cinema 30 (or an SR8015 for that matter), considering Amir's tests, should be able to run a set of 11 Kef R meta speakers in a 20 square meters room.
Most speakers would be around 2 meters away tops, so internal amp should be able to run relatively fine.
We are on the same wavelength on this. Some people got so fixated on imagining that such mid to upper midrange AVRs cannot power 4 ohm speakers or 6,8 ohm ones with dips to below 4 ohms such as 2 ohms. While that could well be the case in many applications, my point is simply that we should not give people a generalized, universal response of "No" and I prefer to keep using the term "depends...".
Some also got fixated on current capacity being key, and so AVRs just can't do it, ignoring the fact that again, it depends on the applications. As you alluded to, 2 meters distance may be fine, but then of course 4.5 meters, combined with relatively low sensitivity speakers that also has low "EPDR" could be problematic, though it might just be heat issues, not necessarily current or stability issues that some seemed always assume...
Just a quick numerical example I posted before, one can see a clear picture if one looks at the V, I, instead of P (watts):
I used Excel to do the following table, if anyone checks and find errors, please kindly let me know and I'll fix it.
Based on the results, using the specified min. impedance of 3.2 ohms for the R3 meta, if the contents hit the minimum impedance 3.2 ohms, the Cinema 30 could still hit reference level on short duration as the calculated current would be about 14 A. That's assuming the power transformer's VA rating is likely about 800 VA, so based on the rail voltage of say 60 Vrms, Current = 800/60 = 13.33 A. That's rms, so peak current would be at least 18.8 A, and that's not counting the added voltage from the storage caps. However, that's based on 1 channel, if the contents demand 2 channels delivering 14 A simultaneously, the Cinema 30 is not going to do it well, most external amp won't be able to do it either! Keep in mind most R3 meta owners are not going to listen to reference level SPL, and the speaker's specified amplifier requirements is only 15-180 W!! If listen to 10 dB below reference, the Cinema 30, or the SR8015 will likely be fine even at times impedance dip to the specified, and measured minimum of 3.2 ohms.
Note: Again, while EPDR is fun to look at, it is generally a heat and stability concern, the "equivalency" is based on heat dissipation, so for current calculations, I still use the specified 3.2 ohms that is real. Erin's measured 1.9 ohm EPDR should not be used to calculate current based on Ohm's law, except if we just want to have a better idea on what the increased heat dissipation is like.
So, clearly while generalized statements about this amp or that amp can or cannot power speakers such as R3 meta because of their limited current capability are useful, they could easily mislead someone who has high hope that their newly acquired $4,500 AVR can do the job well, but got discouraged by such generalized and often pessimistic responses.
| Impedance (ohms, real part of Z) | 3.2 | |||
| Sensitivity | 87 dB/2.83V/m | |||
| Multiples of 2.83 V applied to speaker terminals) | V (Volts) | P (Watts) | I (Amperes) | SPL (2m) |
| 1 | 2.83 | 2.50 | 0.88 | 81.00 |
| 2 | 5.66 | 10.01 | 1.77 | 87.02 |
| 3 | 8.49 | 22.53 | 2.65 | 90.54 |
| 3.5 | 9.91 | 30.66 | 3.10 | 91.88 |
| 4 | 11.32 | 40.04 | 3.54 | 93.04 |
| 4.5 | 12.74 | 50.68 | 3.98 | 94.06 |
| 5 | 14.15 | 62.57 | 4.42 | 94.98 |
| 5.5 | 15.57 | 75.71 | 4.86 | 95.81 |
| 6 | 16.98 | 90.10 | 5.31 | 96.56 |
| 6.5 | 18.40 | 105.74 | 5.75 | 97.26 |
| 7 | 19.81 | 122.64 | 6.19 | 97.90 |
| 7.5 | 21.23 | 140.78 | 6.63 | 98.50 |
| 8 | 22.64 | 160.18 | 7.08 | 99.06 |
| 8.5 | 24.06 | 180.83 | 7.52 | 99.59 |
| 9 | 25.47 | 202.73 | 7.96 | 100.08 |
| 9.5 | 26.89 | 225.88 | 8.40 | 100.55 |
| 10 | 28.30 | 250.28 | 8.84 | 101.00 |
| 10.5 | 29.72 | 275.93 | 9.29 | 101.42 |
| 11 | 31.13 | 302.84 | 9.73 | 101.83 |
| 11.5 | 32.55 | 330.99 | 10.17 | 102.21 |
| 12 | 33.96 | 360.40 | 10.61 | 102.58 |
| 12.5 | 35.38 | 391.06 | 11.05 | 102.94 |
| 13 | 36.79 | 422.97 | 11.50 | 103.28 |
| 13.5 | 38.21 | 456.13 | 11.94 | 103.61 |
| 14 | 39.62 | 490.55 | 12.38 | 103.92 |
| 14.5 | 41.04 | 526.21 | 12.82 | 104.23 |
| 15 | 42.45 | 563.13 | 13.27 | 104.52 |
| 15.5 | 43.87 | 601.29 | 13.71 | 104.81 |
| 16 | 45.28 | 640.71 | 14.15 | 105.08 |
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Vacceo
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The number I'd particularly look at is the 10 to 20 watt section. That is the area between 85 to 90 db which is THX reference volume.
My only concern for this AVR would be using Dirac ART due to the use of more channels for correction and still, chances are some of those corrections will be for low frequencies; on those cases, power will be offloaded to a subwoofer that had its own amp.
This is perhaps the crucial element to remover: low frequencies are very power hungry, but that is why you have a separate device for them.
My only concern for this AVR would be using Dirac ART due to the use of more channels for correction and still, chances are some of those corrections will be for low frequencies; on those cases, power will be offloaded to a subwoofer that had its own amp.
This is perhaps the crucial element to remover: low frequencies are very power hungry, but that is why you have a separate device for them.
That doesn't sound right. If you are referring to reference level, it is 105 dB max, around 85 dB average. That is of course too loud for may home HT users, but that's what the so called THX reference level is.
So if you need 10 W to get 85 dB average, than you would need 1000 W to get the 105 dB maximum. Many people don't need that much, for me it is about 0.2 W average so 20 W maximum, per channel obviously.
My whole point in my long post is to show that it is better for the individuals to do some estimate/calculations etc., to find out what they really need, and then allow for the headroom they are comfortable with, and preferable do it in terms of voltage and current, instead of "watts", that don't mean as much without also knowing other things such as speaker sensitivity, distance, impedance/phase vs frequency etc. But I understand it may too complicated, or technical, for a lot HT hobbyist, still, I wanted to try...
One of those posts where can't quite quote science or math, so probably worthless. And also points to inconsistent experiences, which does not help either.
Nonetheless, I don't feel like my Denon 6700H was ever able to drive very efficient Klipsch 7.x.4 set beyond -10/-15 dB master volume beyond the point where the experience started to sound harsh. After adding some external amps to the setup listening to reference volume even in the 2500sft room became quite possible and really enjoyable. Obviously you want to limit such volume to 2 or less hours per day, or not even every day, so my use for it was the new or older movies I thought would be worth of it.
Interestingly enough, the acoustics of the larger loft where I have another HT, is rarely calling for volumes beyond -10dB, despite the fact that distortion in that system should overall be lower than in the smaller system with Denon/Klipsch and amps are overall more powerful and AVP better, albeit speakers more demanding. Never tried that system with AVR, so can't really tell if would be happy for AVR to drive it.
While difficult to find a common denominator between the above, it might be that you should try and experiment, with an open eye. I am unfortunately naturally biased to amps, but that is my problem. The better way to experiment with external amps is to consider them as additional strain on your budget and that they would need to prove themselves big time before you keep them. If you just think they will be better without the chance to critically evaluate them, chances are they will sound better as well. So "negative" bias to amps, will actually be a positive one in evaluating them.
Nonetheless, I don't feel like my Denon 6700H was ever able to drive very efficient Klipsch 7.x.4 set beyond -10/-15 dB master volume beyond the point where the experience started to sound harsh. After adding some external amps to the setup listening to reference volume even in the 2500sft room became quite possible and really enjoyable. Obviously you want to limit such volume to 2 or less hours per day, or not even every day, so my use for it was the new or older movies I thought would be worth of it.
Interestingly enough, the acoustics of the larger loft where I have another HT, is rarely calling for volumes beyond -10dB, despite the fact that distortion in that system should overall be lower than in the smaller system with Denon/Klipsch and amps are overall more powerful and AVP better, albeit speakers more demanding. Never tried that system with AVR, so can't really tell if would be happy for AVR to drive it.
While difficult to find a common denominator between the above, it might be that you should try and experiment, with an open eye. I am unfortunately naturally biased to amps, but that is my problem. The better way to experiment with external amps is to consider them as additional strain on your budget and that they would need to prove themselves big time before you keep them. If you just think they will be better without the chance to critically evaluate them, chances are they will sound better as well. So "negative" bias to amps, will actually be a positive one in evaluating them.
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