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Marantz Cinema 30

Marantz's own, not sure if others have done it.
Ah ah of course the manufacturer measured their products, but we need independent and trustworthy testing done by Amir or Gene!
 
Ah ah of course the manufacturer measured their products, but we need independent and trustworthy testing done by Amir or Gene!
Fully agreed, though in this case, if I need an AVR right now I would not wait for them, because Marantz has a good track record so far based on their own measurements on the AV10 and SR8015 that are very consistent with Gene and Amir's. If one can wait, then sure, sooner or later it will get measured by Gene or Amir.
 
Gene or Amir will not get worse measurements than marantz’s official, or at least not much worse. Apart from that, I just have curiosity but not the need of measurements. It sounds great
 
How much clearance around the sides and top? I can imagine it might get very warm in there . Perhaps a fan would help to extract the hot air … I would stick to Marantz’s guidance on clearance gaps.
Width is 56,5 cm inside and height is 20,5 cm. What is Marantz guidance? You dont think it will be enough to open the door while in use?
 
Width is 56,5 cm inside and height is 20,5 cm. What is Marantz guidance? You dont think it will be enough to open the door while in use?
With the holes at the back and nothing to force the warm air out of them, I imagine it will just hang around the unit and get progressively hotter. Agree a fan would help expel the warm air .
 
With the holes at the back and nothing to force the warm air out of them, I imagine it will just hang around the unit and get progressively hotter. Agree a fan would help expel the warm air .

My points are, a) the build in fans reportedly, never turned on, b) potential thermal issues could be due to certain speakers that have impedance/phase angle (what could be easily identified by their EPDR values, if available) that could be a challenge of AVRs and many separate power amplifiers, c) certain music or movie tracks may have contents that happen to have lots of demands that last long enough to cause thermal issues the AVRs heatsinks cannot handle.

So, my take is that the build in fans are there to minimize warranty claims that D+M covers for 3 to 5 years, and the design were likely weighed in favor of setting their turn on point to activate under drastic conditions, that would likely be not suitable for protecting the unit from gradual deterioration towards failure. An external fan would help alleviate my concern and in theory, should prolong it's trouble free operating life.

My AVM70, that is just a preamp/processor, yet my first unit's fan would wake me up during a quiet music passage, or movie scene so they evidently set the protection point lower than they probably should, opposite to D+M's design. A $20 fan stopped their loud fan nuisance in that application, where the AVP is well ventilated with about 4" clearance on top and 2.5" on both side, plus 80% open to the rear. Then I traded the first unit in for the 8K version, and that one has the fan setting right, but I still leave the external fan on, in the hope that it would make the unit last longer.

That is not to say your unit failed because of the heat, you won't know unless, and until Denon's repair center would tell you their diagnostic results. So, what kind of speakers are you loading the AVR with, at the time of failure, and your listening spl, distance, and your normal master volume settings? Thanks for sharing.

Edit: Just noticed you posted your speakers models, the F206 is 8 ohm nominal, but dip to about 3.3 ohms with phase angle about -10 degrees, so not really that bad especially if you use subs with XO above 60 Hz.
 
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Yesterday we were considering the potential for Marantz to replace the smaller processor, the AV7706. I remembered listening to something and I found it: Phil Jones hints that it may be possible. Gene talked to him around a month ago (52:40) and it may actually happen.

It they re-use the chassis of the Cinema 30, we can esentially expect an 11 to 13 channel processor and all the performance of the AV10. Not a bad deal, to be honest.
 
Yesterday we were considering the potential for Marantz to replace the smaller processor, the AV7706. I remembered listening to something and I found it: Phil Jones hints that it may be possible. Gene talked to him around a month ago (52:40) and it may actually happen.

It they re-use the chassis of the Cinema 30, we can esentially expect an 11 to 13 channel processor and all the performance of the AV10. Not a bad deal, to be honest.
Good find!
Obviously everything can change depending how they sell currently but if and it’s a big if it comes out with dual channel DACs and not cost much more than C30 - I’m interested. Otherwise C30 (when it gets Dirac ART update).
 
Good find!
Obviously everything can change depending how they sell currently but if and it’s a big if it comes out with dual channel DACs and not cost much more than C30 - I’m interested. Otherwise C30 (when it gets Dirac ART update).
What dual channel dac, you mean the 2 channel dac ics such as the ES9018K2M used in the AV10 and A1H?
 
What dual channel dac, you mean the 2 channel dac ics such as the ES9018K2M used in the AV10 and A1H?
Yes precisely. Otherwise there is no reason other than balanced outputs to get 13 channel processor, considering c30 performance in preamp section
 
Yes precisely. Otherwise there is no reason other than balanced outputs to get 13 channel processor, considering c30 performance in preamp section
But that's what it was for the old AV7705/7706 vs SR7015.

And, I doubt they would use the same dac chips exclusive used for the top model. They might use the ES9010K2M used in the AV8805A that repaced the AK4490 after the AKM factory fire, but those 2 ch stereo dac chips have lower specs than the new 8 ch ES9017 used in the C30.

The flagship Anthem AVM90 also used 8 ch ES9038Pro, one of the top ESS dac chips. 2 ch dac chips are not always better.
 
But that's what it was for the old AV7705/7706 vs SR7015.

And, I doubt they would use the same dac chips exclusive used for the top model. They might use the ES9010K2M used in the AV8805A that repaced the AK4490 after the AKM factory fire, but those 2 ch stereo dac chips have lower specs than the new 8 ch ES9017 used in the C30.

The flagship Anthem AVM90 also used 8 ch ES9038Pro, one of the top ESS dac chips. 2 ch dac chips are not always better.
Spec wise the difference between them is indistinguishable- you wouldn’t notice the difference yourself. But I believe there is a difference between running a stereo signal through dual 8 channel DAC - if DAC is very good it can sound brilliant but it’s different when running 11 channels through them. You lose that detail. This is my subjective feeling about it, and since they chose this approach in the flagships there must be something to it, some measurable crosstalk.
This being a processor doubt they would price it below C30. If the only thing they would do is add balanced outputs - this will be DOA. Also I do believe there would be more work involved in designing C30 without amp section than limiting number of channels on AV10. Dunno will see
 
Spec wise the difference between them is indistinguishable- you wouldn’t notice the difference yourself. But I believe there is a difference between running a stereo signal through dual 8 channel DAC - if DAC is very good it can sound brilliant but it’s different when running 11 channels through them. You lose that detail. This is my subjective feeling about it, and since they chose this approach in the flagships there must be something to it, some measurable crosstalk.
This being a processor doubt they would price it below C30. If the only thing they would do is add balanced outputs - this will be DOA. Also I do believe there would be more work involved in designing C30 without amp section than limiting number of channels on AV10. Dunno will see
Marantz and Denon chose the 2 CH versions but those are much cheaper on per channel basis, so I think more likely cost saving is the main reason.

Arcam, Anthem, Yamaha used the 8 channel chips. The ES9038Pro cost much more, again, on per channel basis.



Regardless, the dac chip is not the bottleneck, so imo if they simply use the C30, without the power amp section, use a much smaller PS, add balanced outputs, may be a pair obt the f stereo inputs, and sell the lower model AV for $1,000 less than the C30, they should compete well with Anthem, Yamaha, Monolith, Emotiva and even the lower Arcam models AVPs.

By the way, the AVR-X1800H, Cinema 70 also uses 2 channel dac chips.
 
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Marantz and Denon chose the 2 CH versions but those are much cheaper on per channel basis, so I think more likely cost saving is the main reason.

Arcam, Anthem, Yamaha used the 8 channel chips. The ES9038Pro cost much more, again, on per channel basis.



Regardless, the dac chip is not the bottleneck, so imo if they simply use the C30, without the power amp section, use a much smaller PS, add balanced outputs, may be a pair obt the f stereo inputs, and sell the lower model AV for $1,000 less than the C30, they should compete well with Anthem, Yamaha, Monolith, Emotiva and even the lower Arcam models AVPs.

By the way, the AVR-X1800H, Cinema 70 also uses 2 channel dac chips.
If they did sell it for 1k less sure it would work. But somehow processors have a tendency of being more expensive than matching AVRs. So wouldn’t bet on it.
According D&M dual DACs are used for better channel separation and some subjective reviews seem to agree with that. Wouldn’t think they would cheap out on flagship models, DAC cost is one thing - and dual channel DACs will be understandably cheaper, but designing that would be more challenging and costly no doubt.
 
If Marantz turns the C30 into a processor we'd get, compared to the AV10:

-SINAD above 100 db as in shown by Phil Jones in the video I linked above.
-3 to 5 less channels.
-4 unbalanced sub outs.
-No balanced ins.
-No FM.
-A great phono albeit limited

Honestly, I don't think those are bad prospects.
 
I need your inputs here. I think I have finaly made up my mind, the C30 will be my next AVR, but...

I have built a TV furniture from IKEA stuff, its housing/frame.

The frame is 53cm in deepth inside.

If i measure everyting correct the C30 will fit and a HDMI cable pointing out in the back as well, am I correct?


I will NOT have the door closed when using it, to have airflow, it will be open while listening. The IKEA frame is closed in the back, but three large holes has been cut out, for some air. My main concern is if it will fit and the HDMI as well, or will it be too big?

I think the key question here is, are you using the internal amps, as that would probably yield higher temps than using it in pure pre-amp mode?

I have mine in a sealed cupboard 445mm Wide x 530mm Deep x 295mm high, with an Infinity fan at the top of this cupboard ventilating into the roof cavity. I have the Infinity fan set to come on at 32deg C and only on hot days does the fan even turn on, during normal operation on mild days (day 20-25 deg C) the temperature at the top of this cabinet is around 26 deg C which is nothing, the unit barley gets warm in pre-amp mode.

Oh due to the width of this cabinet being 445mm there is like only 3mm clearance in total for both sides which is less than ideal.
 
Because this column originally asked for subjective opinions ....
This is followup to earlier post, at which point I didn't have nearly as many hours listening and comparing systems comparing sound of my "two" systems. .

This is for 5.2 playback only, as I have no way to compare higher channel counts.
External amps involved, so main difference is one system uses exasound multichannel DAC and Audiolense, and other uses Dirac on the 30.
I switch between systems with a coleman 7.1 switch, and sync playback between systems with JRiver. No, I am not level matching (except by ear).

The differences are not always apparent, but on some two track and 4 channel material, I prefer how AL processes the bass and lower midrange. To my ears, Audiolense, pulls everything more center than Dirac, and gives you a sense of a phantom center. When using the 30 /Dirac, and turning up the volume to higher levels, I still can't get that that same cohesiveness in the center of my listening room provided with DAC/AL chain.

I prefer the AL sound because of this, and is only reason I'll keep my DAC connected.

Having said that, I happily listen to the 30 and don't feel like I'm missing that much. The 30 is also drop dead simple for playing Atmos music, where (I think) my described DSP differences mean very little, if anything, when you have music from many surround speakers.

It's the best AVR I've ever owned.
 
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