Marantz AV10 AV Processor Review

[Killingbeans]

Yes. You can't get that from an AVR at any price point right now, so why at this low a price?

Because it not an AVR? It's only a processor. It doesn't even contain any amps to bottleneck the performance and add substantially to the manufacturing cost.

The fact that this is the best we can expect from AV products is a bit sad in my book.

You read correctly - I said low. There are more expensive items on the market that are as far off that performance as this one is.

I know, and that shouldn't really be an excuse. Just because the competition makes you pay even more for less, it isn't a free ticket to skimp on the performance.

If I paid $7K for an AVP, I'd expect nothing short of SOTA. Not just better than what you'd normally get.

 

[Vovgan]

Great review. Only missing 2 things I can think of...
-Dirac ART. I won't purchase anything without it. It actually works great.
-Manual PEQ. My best sounding results to me have been no automated EQ above around 500hz or so. And if anything needs to be done above that, manual PEQ. I wish Marants/Denon would enable this.
While this seems quite expensive, it is a very good value in the market IMO.
Now they need to release a Denon, digital only version. No analog inputs, no headphone amp, just a pure digital theater processor. I wonder if they could hit a $5k price point for such a unit.

Very well said. I think (but may be mistaken in this) that I can live without Dirac if I’m given manual PEQ adjustments after Audyssey calibration is done.

 

[Vovgan]

Dying to see how their new AVR’s perform as processors (for those of us who have good amps and don’t need so many channels)

 

[Fidji]

Sheer amount of moaning about price of anything that costs more than Apple dongle is a bit annoying.
(together with Schadenfreude, when something out of “high-end” realm measures worse than Topping)

7k will probably make like max. 10% of the costs of the installation, that it is intended to be a part of. Higher end HT is not a cheap thing. 16 speakers and 16 channels of amplification, 4 subs, projector and screen will make 7k for AVP seem like “other out of pocket expenses”. Even good HT seating is more expensive. Proper acoustic treatment will cost you more.

And for the performance - proper calibration will make much much more difference than absolutely inaudible difference between 107 and 120dB SiNAD that some people expect.

 

[ban25]

Sheer amount of moaning about price of anything that costs more than Apple dongle is a bit annoying.
(together with Schadenfreude, when something out of “high-end” realm measures worse than Topping)

7k will probably make like max. 10% of the costs of the installation, that it is intended to be a part of. Higher end HT is not a cheap thing. 16 speakers and 16 channels of amplification, 4 subs, projector and screen will make 7k for AVP seem like “other out of pocket expenses”. Even good HT seating is more expensive. Proper acoustic treatment will cost you more.

And for the performance - proper calibration will make much much more difference than absolutely inaudible difference between 107 and 120dB SiNAD that some people expect.

+1 +1 +1

I just spent 78% of the cost of this unit just to add 4 height channels to my existing system (4k + 1.5k installation), which is decidedly mid-range.

The AV10 is competing with products that are 2-3x the price. It's a bargain for what you get.

 

[jhaider]

Not True - Audyssey Dynamic Vol / Eq are only available if/when using Audyssey - and therefore not available when using Dirac

That’s exactly what I was saying - choice is Dirac or system wide loudness. IMO if you’re paying $1k for better room correction money should the only price. You shouldn’t have to lose key functionality.

Dolby Loudness / Late night should be available with Dirac enabled,

“Should be?” Either it does - and that is supported by citation to the manual or a screenshot, burden of proof on the claimant - or it doesn’t. FWIW I looked in the manual. The “loudness management” page only references compression and center increase. Likewise, the search “Dolby Audio Processing” Marantz AV10 only turned up hits for Arcam AVR10 and HTP-1.

Also, my understanding is even if this is included, it’s a half-measure, because it does not work on Auro upmixed content. Or maybe they fixed that?

it may also have THX loudness,

“May” isn’t helpful. Either it does - and that is supported by citation to the manual or a screenshot, burden of proof on the claimant - or it doesn’t.

but there is certainly loudness compensation with Dirac enabled.

“Should” and “may” do not sum to “certainly”.

 

[jhaider]

7k will probably make like max. 10% of the costs of the installation, that it is intended to be a part of. Higher end HT is not a cheap thing. 16 speakers and 16 channels of amplification, 4 subs, projector and screen will make 7k for AVP seem like “other out of pocket expenses”.

That’s exactly my point - 8k USD (after licensing) it’s kind of in a nether region where price doesn’t really matter to prospective buyers. Given that, why wouldn’t someone just buy e.g. Storm, Lyngdorf, or even Trinnov?

 

[SorenTyson]

Way too much, these guys could sell a ton more if it was a reasonable price point.

And imagine how many they would ship if they just gave it away

Whenever there is an avr review the comments go why they don’t spend a bit more to make it SOTA. Here it is and then the comments go why it’s not cheaper

 

[Acerun]

@amirm Don't you usually test AVRs first with amplifiers turned off, separate from the amplifier? And then test the amplifier module separately to see how it performs?

Is this test only with the onboard amplifiers on?

 

[Fidji]

@amirm Don't you usually test AVRs first with amplifiers turned off, separate from the amplifier? And then test the amplifier module separately to see how it performs?

Is this test only with the onboard amplifiers on?

this is AV Processor, not AV Receiver - no amps inside.

 

[GXAlan]

I own it and it’s precise. You can import REW filters. It works great. But it can’t be used with Dirac. It’s either/or

What Audyssey adds is the dynamic EQ which often feels artificial but unlike a lot of tweaks actually doesn’t annoy you over time. MultEQ-X is supposed to let you control the aggressiveness of the dynamic EQ as well.

Audyssey also juices up the surround volume in this mode which has pros and cons. I am not sure how configurable that is with the MultEQ-X.

That’s not a part of HTP-1’s loudness feature.

The fact that this is the best we can expect from AV products is a bit sad in my book.

Such is life when you need to make a product that works with speakers that might have 86 to 92 db/2.83V efficiency, amplifiers that have a wide range of gain, and rooms of different sizes.

If I paid $7K for an AVP, I'd expect nothing short of SOTA. Not just better than what you'd normally get.

I mean this is SOTA. It’s the highest performing AV processor tested here.

1) 21 channels of analog outs. This allows you to have 4 subs and 17 speakers configured to allow the different layouts for Atmos vs DTS:X.
2) 21 channels of EQ
3) HDMI 8k switching with reliable CEC support
4) HEOS streaming
5) Phono amp
6) One box, where electrical environment is tougher
7) 5 year warranty, made in Japan.
8) Bass management for 15 channels and four subs (Audyssey SubEQ)
9) Dolby/DTS/Auro

MiniDSP Flex HT 8 ch with Dirac: $850 x3
HDFury 8k VRRoom: $550 x2
WiiM Pro: $150
Phono: $100
Dolby/DTS/Auro: $1000

$4900 and it probably doesn’t work as well as one box, made in Japan.

The HTP-1 at $4000 is a better value unless you specifically need something from the Marantz in its current state.

That’s exactly my point - 8k USD (after licensing) it’s kind of in a nether region where price doesn’t really matter to prospective buyers. Given that, why wouldn’t someone just buy e.g. Storm, Lyngdorf, or even Trinnov?

It’s definitely overpriced unless you specifically need 15.4 support *and* you believe it’s getting Dirac ART (where you gets do a 15.1 with MSO). Where I see this primarily being used is the Best Buy/Magnolia AV scenario where it’s an upsell over the A1H and cheaper than the McIntosh processors they sell where the customer is not super tech savvy and doesn’t want to step into the true custom integrator world. It is my understanding that Magnolia sells a surprisingly high number of premium priced products from B&W, McIntosh, Mark Levinson where you might otherwise expect the customer to be going to a dedicated audio shop.

The other thing is that I think it was @Buckeye Amps who bought a Trinnov, had problems, and then had to move to Storm. So even at the premium price points, there can be configuration challenges.

Now that the AV10 has been measured and it does NOT seem to beat the HTP-1 at lower output voltages, I think people in the sub $10k price point have to ask what the HTP-1 is missing for their needs.

That $3000 difference buys a nicer TV, some bigger subs, or some better speakers. On the other hand, if “perfect” HDMI CEC is worth the extra $3000, then it’s a different story.

When you factor in the sale prices on both processors, then the delta is about $2K.

 

[Acerun]

What Audyssey adds is the dynamic EQ which often feels artificial but unlike a lot of tweaks actually doesn’t annoy you over time. MultEQ-X is supposed to let you control the aggressiveness of the dynamic EQ as well.

Audyssey also juices up the surround volume in this mode which has pros and cons. I am not sure how configurable that is with the MultEQ-X.

That’s not a part of HTP-1’s loudness feature.


Such is life when you need to make a product that works with speakers that might have 86 to 92 db/2.83V efficiency, amplifiers that have a wide range of gain, and rooms of different sizes.


I mean this is SOTA. It’s the highest performing AV processor tested here.

1) 21 channels of analog outs. This allows you to have 4 subs and 17 speakers configured to allow the different layouts for Atmos vs DTS:X.
2) 21 channels of EQ
3) HDMI 8k switching with reliable CEC support
4) HEOS streaming
5) Phono amp
6) One box, where electrical environment is tougher
7) 5 year warranty, made in Japan.
8) Bass management for 15 channels and four subs (Audyssey SubEQ)
9) Dolby/DTS/Auro

MiniDSP Flex HT 8 ch with Dirac: $850 x3
HDFury 8k VRRoom: $550 x2
WiiM Pro: $150
Phono: $100
Dolby/DTS/Auro: $1000

$4900 and it probably doesn’t work as well as one box, made in Japan.

The HTP-1 at $4000 is a better value unless you specifically need something from the Marantz in its current state.



It’s definitely overpriced unless you specifically need 15.4 support *and* you believe it’s getting Dirac ART (where you gets do a 15.1 with MSO). Where I see this primarily being used is the Best Buy/Magnolia AV scenario where it’s an upsell over the A1H and cheaper than the McIntosh processors they sell where the customer is not super tech savvy and doesn’t want to step into the true custom integrator world. It is my understanding that Magnolia sells a surprisingly high number of premium priced products from B&W, McIntosh, Mark Levinson where you might otherwise expect the customer to be going to a dedicated audio shop.

The other thing is that I think it was @Buckeye Amps who bought a Trinnov, had problems, and then had to move to Storm. So even at the premium price points, there can be configuration challenges.

Now that the AV10 has been measured and it does NOT seem to beat the HTP-1 at lower output voltages, I think people in the sub $10k price point have to ask what the HTP-1 is missing for their needs.

That $3000 difference buys a nicer TV, some bigger subs, or some better speakers. On the other hand, if “perfect” HDMI CEC is worth the extra $3000, then it’s a different story.

When you factor in the sale prices on both processors, then the delta is about $2K.

Just a short comment on Audyssey multiEQ-X. It does give you the ability to choose gradations of dynamic EQ. I like the lowest setting of Dynamic EQ for watching TV and sports and shows. But I don't want it on for music listening. Nice thing is is that the Denon can hold those settings for each input. When I hit CD dynamic EQ is off, when I put on DirecTV to watch a game it is on.

Regarding your comment about it boosting the surrounds, that is true but all you have to do is go into levels and take it down to where it sounds right to you but that can honestly be three or four DB. But it's an easy fix.

 

[Descartes]

Here is the Marantz Video I referred to that has the measurements in it (and a bit of technical info):

The Manufacturer Specifications for this beast are long and detailed. To post them would eat up multiple pages and get in the way here. To facilitate access to this information I am going to just drop a link. This is in “no way” is any form of endorsement or collaboration with the Manufacturer.

AV 10 Preamplifier / Processor | Marantz

The Marantz AV 10 is a reference-level 15.4 channel processor featuring Dolby Atmos, DTS:X Pro Auro 3D, IMAX Enhanced, 8K Ultra HD and HEOS Built-in streaming.

www.marantz.com

How does it compare to other processors such as the Anthem AVM90?

 

[Descartes]

You can buy Dirac Live for this unit for US$350.

Marantz AV 10 – Dirac

DIRAC LIVE FOR Marantz AV 10 Get your license

www.dirac.com

It should be included in the price!

 

[Descartes]

This is superb performance. I was going to say "for an AVR", however this is better than many standalone amplifiers.

Well done Marantz... although would be nice to see this a few thousand cheaper, but being a premium flagship model that wouldn't sell as many units it's understandable. At least one gets the performance expected in a premium product.

Thanks for your time on this testing Amir, some pic's;

View attachment 330825

View attachment 330826



JSmith

Do you have pictures of the remote?

 

[Hart]

Good results. Now if only they had a scaled down version of it like 5.1 of 7.2 whatever for a fraction of the price...

Exactly what I have been looking for. A simple audiophile 5.1 with less features and scaled down. I think it is so large due to the real-estate needed for all the inputs on the back. I wonder if there is a large enough market for a product like that? Perfect for two channel users who happen to also have a 5.1 set-up as well. I also wonder if Marantz should market a higher end product like this under a different name, kind of like Lexus. It's a tip tier product being sold under an arguably mid-fi name.

 

[Hart]

Do you have pictures of the remote?

I think this is it

 

[Fidji]

Exactly what I have been looking for. A simple audiophile 5.1 with less features and scaled down. I think it is so large due to the real-estate needed for all the inputs on the back. I wonder if there is a large enough market for a product like that? Perfect for two channel users who happen to also have a 5.1 set-up as well. I also wonder if Marantz should market a higher end product like this under a different name, kind of like Lexus. It's a tip tier product being sold under an arguably mid-fi name.

Yes, there is product you describe - very simple 5.1, including the streamer. Ticks all the audiophile boxes.

Selekt DSM | Network Music Players | Linn International

Configure Selekt DSM to suit you - source-only, amps, Surround Sound, Katalyst or Organik DAC, bi-amp, tri-amp ... plus a whole host of connectivity.

www.linn.co.uk

Costs 4 times more than Marantz. Actually it costs almost the same as 28 channel Trinnov. Looks gorgeous, you can not deny that.

 

[GXAlan]

I also wonder if Marantz should market a higher end product like this under a different name, kind of like Lexus. It's a tip tier product being sold under an arguably mid-fi name.

I had the Marantz PM-10 which is an even higher priced product from the brand. It’s an interesting thought, especially since Classé exists in the Massimo portfolio. When the new Shirakawa works Delta came out, there was an interview that said this would be the first of a line of new products including a new AV product (since Classé previously had products on that space).

The other thing is that they are trying to move Marantz upmarket from Denon with their branding and advertising. They explained that the years where Marantz was split between the U.S. and non-US market, the U.S. reputation dropped while the global reputation remained high.

Luxman successfully reversed their dip in prestige during the 80’s, so maybe consistent high performance and high reliability products will bring Marantz back up.

 

[Galliardist]

Because it not an AVR? It's only a processor. It doesn't even contain any amps to bottleneck the performance and add substantially to the manufacturing cost.

The fact that this is the best we can expect from AV products is a bit sad in my book.



I know, and that shouldn't really be an excuse. Just because the competition makes you pay even more for less, it isn't a free ticket to skimp on the performance.

If I paid $7K for an AVP, I'd expect nothing short of SOTA. Not just better than what you'd normally get.

Whoops! Not sure how I wrote AVR there. But these AV products are complex things, regardless. I’d say the way to further improve involves simplifying the product. That can be done, but how many features can you drop in the process before people complain about that?

There may be gains to be had in software, but that will increase rather than decrease the price.

So no, you are wrong to expect more today from a package that does what this one does. There is a further point, though, and that is maybe tbat your money should go on a product from a company that will invest in further improvements over the next few years: both better firmware for your own product and in better hardware for your next purchase.

If What is Marantz’s record here? I suspect that they see this as the AV equivalent of their Reference series audio products so evolution may be slow. They still update fairly regularly down the range though. Are their rivals capable of that, or are you looking at smaller companies without tbe R&D budget? I don’t know.