Marantz AV10 AV Processor Review

[jhaider]

Great review. Only missing 2 things I can think of...
-Dirac ART. I won't purchase anything without it. It actually works great.
-Manual PEQ. My best sounding results to me have been no automated EQ above around 500hz or so. And if anything needs to be done above that, manual PEQ. I wish Marants/Denon would enable this.
While this seems quite expensive, it is a very good value in the market IMO.
Now they need to release a Denon, digital only version. No analog inputs, no headphone amp, just a pure digital theater processor. I wonder if they could hit a $5k price point for such a unit.

I would add a third - loudness compensation. As I understand it loudness comp and Dirac are either/or on current Masimo.

I'm less bullish on the value proposition, though. The pricing seems awkward to me. I wonder where the market for a $5000-10,000 AVR/P really is. Maybe I'm wrong, but IMO >$5k is into the realm of "price no object" for that kind of box, so it seems to me anyone who's willing to go all the way up to 8k (after the Dirac additions) would also be looking at Lyngdorf or Storm. One doesn't necessarily say that about an HTP-1 shopper, because the price delta is perceptually so much wider. Also I'm not sure the brand rep is there yet for an $8k processor. I doubt Anthem AVM90s are flying off the shelves, yet they're actually cheaper than this one when you account for the additional licensing.

 

[Mikycoud]

DLBC has been officially announced as coming to the AV10 (and all D+M products from the X3800H/C50 on up). ART has been unofficially announced by Marantz staff in Europe.

Maybe even not so unofficially...

 

[DonR]

Nice showing from Marantz. Are you listening to your sister, Denon?

 

[amirm]

Nice showing from Marantz. Are you listening to your sister, Denon?

There is only one core engineering team. Marantz team just tweaks things. Question is whether they are reserving the best performance for Marantz line or not.

 

[Koeitje]

There’s a lot more that goes into the price than the BOM though.

They have to account for R&D, licensing costs to Dolby/DTS/etc (which increase based on the channel count of the unit), marketing costs, warranty costs, higher labor costs since this unit is assembled in Japan, etc.

Then Marantz has to make a profit selling it to the dealers/retailers, and they have to make a profit selling it to the end user.

When I used to work selling electronics I seem to remember that when it came to audio gear speakers had by far the most markup, but that it was much less on component electronics (other than Bose which was pretty huge on everything).

Regardless I do think $7K is a lot for a pure processor, which is why I went with the equivalent Denon unit, the AVR-A1H, which is a full receiver with the amps built-in so I paid less for the unit and saved the cost on external amps.

I imagine it will measure similarly since it’s the same platform, but hoping that Amir gets one.

This is not going be under $5000 margin after all costs are taken into account. I agree with you that the AVR-A1H is the better deal, which shows exactly what is wrong with the AVP market: you pay more for less, simply because they know people will pay it.

Looking at it I'd guess that plus software licensing costs, bespoke software development costs and costs of sale.

For a lot of things where dealers are meant to be providing install and after sales service dealers will be acquiring for between 30% to 40% of MSRP. For mass market things it's between 50% and 80% depending on a whole host of factors

Yes, so about $2000 tops. Its crazy how a machine like the AVR-A1H can be sold for less than an AV10 even though they most likely share many parts and software. Oh wait no, that's not crazy, they know they can ask more for an AVP.

Look at that the one reviewed here was a refurb that had a whopping $1500 knocked off kinda shows that.

 

[restorer-john]

They look fancy, but that's all they do... besides driving the poor people, who do repairs on it, nuts.

They are not copper, just copper plated steel as copper is way too soft.

Marantz 'copper' screw.

 

[dlaloum]

I would add a third - loudness compensation. As I understand it loudness comp and Dirac are either/or on current Masimo.

I'm less bullish on the value proposition, though. The pricing seems awkward to me. I wonder where the market for a $5000-10,000 AVR/P really is. Maybe I'm wrong, but IMO >$5k is into the realm of "price no object" for that kind of box, so it seems to me anyone who's willing to go all the way up to 8k (after the Dirac additions) would also be looking at Lyngdorf or Storm. One doesn't necessarily say that about an HTP-1 shopper, because the price delta is perceptually so much wider. Also I'm not sure the brand rep is there yet for an $8k processor. I doubt Anthem AVM90s are flying off the shelves, yet they're actually cheaper than this one when you account for the additional licensing.

Not True - Audyssey Dynamic Vol / Eq are only available if/when using Audyssey - and therefore not available when using Dirac

Dolby Loudness / Late night should be available with Dirac enabled, it may also have THX loudness, and I believe there is a DTS equivalent function as well.

Whether one prefers one of these to another is a completely different matter - but there is certainly loudness compensation with Dirac enabled.

 

[Sokel]

They are not copper, just copper plated steel as copper is way too soft.

Marantz 'copper' screw.
View attachment 331089

I have seen some red ones too,didn't felt soft to me when unscrewed them so probably steel too.
But they look fabulous!

 

[dlaloum]

There is only one core engineering team. Marantz team just tweaks things. Question is whether they are reserving the best performance for Marantz line or not.

I am guessing, but I would expect the Denon A1H to be at the same level of performance, there are enough similarities in the back panel layout to suspect substantial sharing of the DSP/HDMI/Preamp circuits....

 

[chelgrian]

The other interesting thing is that you can find refurbs or open box units sub $6000. (And AMP10 for $4500).

These are so new that you have to imagine that the refurbs are pretty good and must have minimal damage.

So in the UK MSRP is £6400 the lowest advertised street price I've seen so far is £5950. Those include all taxes.

I'd prefer if they produce a 11.2 version in a 2u box which ought to be between 3k and 4K if they did it.

It's older technology now but the McIntosh Mx100 is a D&M inspired design re-engineered to improve performance you are paying a lot for the name.

 

[sealman]

After 2 "high end" AVR's failed and could not be repaired after less than 5 years but out of warranty I gave up on them. These things are incredibly complex and physically dense and I don't think you can depend on them being reliable long term. Unfortunately troubleshooting and repair is also complicated and parts (full board replacement for the most part) availability is spotty after just a few years. While this thing is cool I am not rich enough to take a $7K risk.

The cost is the only thing that kept me from hitting then "buy" button. Yes I could afford it but my kitchen remodel would be pushed back even further. At some point I need to I need to stop kicking the remodel project to the curb with audio purchases!

 

[Sal1950]

Can't say how pleased I am to see the performance of this Marantz !!!
Amir, you definitely have a pat on the back coming for pushing D-M in this direction over the last few years.
I don't believe it ever would have happened without the exposure of ASR.
Actually we all as a objective, science based community, can take a tiny slice of the credit for finally
coming out of the shadows of subjective reviewers and making some noise of our own.
Now we can all hope for a trickle-down of this attention to proper engineering in AV gear. Good numbers doesn't have to be very expensive as a few like Topping have shown.
Cheers to all.

 

[Killingbeans]

They are not copper, just copper plated steel as copper is way too soft.

Marantz 'copper' screw.
View attachment 331089

Makes sense. I haven't worked on products with those screws in them (or maybe I have, but didn't notice), and I just imagined it was solid copper, meaning they would be non-magnetic and snap as soon as you torque them just a tad too much. So... they are just for decoration? Or is it an attempt at making the ground path less resistive?

What I do have worked on is products with non-magnetic stainless steel screws, and those are a bitch!

 

[Irwinroad]

Amir, you definitely have a pat on the back coming for pushing D-M in this direction over the last few years.
I don't believe it ever would have happened without the exposure of ASR.

An honorable mention in a roundabout way!

 

[Killingbeans]

For $7k, I am expecting this level of measured performance.

At this price point, I honestly expected the kind of performance @617 is asking about in post #43.

Am I being too demanding?

 

[Sal1950]

Multitone performance is excellent for an AV product even though I used HDMI (sample rate is 192 KHz which Toslink doesn't support):

Hate to contradict ya boss but some DAC's will do 192k with a good cable and source driver.
Here's my ole Emotiva DC-1 you measured playing a 2L 192k file using the optical source.

 

[Galliardist]

At this price point, I honestly expected the kind of performance @617 is asking about in post #43.

Am I being too demanding?

Yes. You can't get that from an AVR at any price point right now, so why at this low a price?

You read correctly - I said low. There are more expensive items on the market that are as far off that performance as this one is.

 

[Sal1950]

At this price point, I honestly expected the kind of performance @617 is asking about in post #43.

Am I being too demanding?

Maybe, maybe not.
IMHO numbers like this Marantz is well into the fully transparent area.
But many people still want 200mph cars, so--------------

 

[FrantzM]

At a minimum, Marantz needs to offer the unit with Dirac DLBC and, preferably with Dirac ART. Really for this kind of money it should have Trinov functionality. But at least we are making progress in that we have a unit that includes something other than 1980's quality DACS with performance compromised by the units DSP. Looks like it can handle 9 base level speakers 4 subs and 8 heights. Their website indicates it can do ATMOS, DTS-X Pro, Auro 3D, and IMAX enhanced. Again the size of a small refrigerator, but at least the display does not look like it belongs in the cockpit of a 767.

Unfortunately only Dirac Live with none of the advanced add on's. Marantz will probably be willing to sell you a new processor a year or so down the road with DLBC, and a year after that one with ART.

Hi

For some reasons, I guess these have to do with our needs for the latest and shiniest, Dirac has all the buzz when it comes to audio processing/DSP/DRC. The notion of it being superior to Audyssey, however, is at a best a conjecture. The rare serious comparisons seem to indicate they are at least equal and that Audyssey's with MutEQ-X hold its own even against Dirac + DLBC. Then there is the reality that no one listens to music or movies at one fixed volume dial position. AFAIK, Dirac doesn't have anything similar to DynEQs which , IMHO, performs a good and needed compensation for the Fletcher-Munson curves, the non linearity of our hearing system vs SPL level
All Denon/Marantz come with Audyssey. When coupled with the MultEQ-X app, you have in your hands a powerful DSP/DRC which would match anything DIRAC has to offer, except for the ART part .. The jury is out on ART, I am yet to read or hear about a serious objective, test of review of it. The idea behind ART, is however, pun intended . "sound"

At the price I would like to see this AVR with the MultEQ-X bunded in. On a slightly different front , the Audyssey people need to rev-up, their marketing engine to present themselves better.

I could be biased. MultEQ-X has transformed my system, to a level I would not have thought possible with such inexpensive (call them cheap if you want) components.

Another thing, they may want to review the price. It seems that the many issues of MonoPrice HTP-1, have been ironed out. At $4000 it remains a formidable competitor with, this time, a good variable loudness compensation solution, that some believe, to be as good or even better than DynEQ.

A good showing by Marantz. Price is a bit too dear IMO.

Peace.

 

[Sokel]

People have to realize that any kind of processing (DSP or analog) can make performance drop like a rock.

Think of what happened to miniDSPs and the like in the known thread when only three filters got in the way and now think of a 1000 times more complex design like this,with all the rat's nest inside,with all kinds of processing,with a gazillion of I/O (remember what happened with just a bad choice clump in the Buckeye amp? )etc.

I'll say it again,such performance is a miracle,specially noise.