The remote of both the A1H and the AV10 are backlit.
manuals.denon.com
manuals.marantz.com
Random guessing is 50% right. Ouch.
There are so many issues with your first sentence... and with your second sentence TBH.
Of all the remotes I own or have owned, the very best IMO is the one I get from XfinityThe remote of both the A1H and the AV10 are backlit.
Setting the back light of the remote control unit AVR-A1H
Setting the back light of the remote control unit AV 10
This seems like an odd way to do this. Why not use something with pre-amp outputs, record the signal at the pre-amp outputs with a beyond human competent adc, and then match the recorded files with spectral analysis? That removes your room/speaker/amp chain, and gets you to just the at-the-jack-brass-tacks outputs for more ideal comparison. After all, if there's nothing different going to your amps, there's nothing different in your room.Absolutely agree with all of that post (funny, I thought I saw it earlier?)
Distinguishing between two good amplifiers operating between noise and clipping is very much more difficult blind than sighted, but it IS POSSIBLE
Equally, sighted tests are very much less reliable than blind, but they're NOT ALWAYS wrong. Long story coming.
Nick
Edit: The long story. I used to be a very active member of AVForums, swapped gear with friends, and did lots of blind group listening tests at local dealers. On 26 Jan 2009 ( a day I remember well) I got my hands on a BDP and AVP that could both do HD codec decoding. I'd become quite obsessed with jitter at the time, and expected that processor decoding would sound better than player decoding due to the different digital audio replay architecture (how the audio clock is regenerated in the processor). Conventional wisdom was that they should sound the same because bits were bits, but I thought I knew better than everyone else, and several users had already claimed to hear a (sighted) improvement with processor decoding. I wanted to prove that I understood what made HiFi tick, and also to prove that I had golden ears. I could hardly wait to listen and confirm my convictions for myself. The anticipation had built up for some time, and I wonder if you can guess what happened next? I played a Bluray with a particularly musical HD audio soundtrack with the player configured to perform the decoding and output LPCM audio, and listened as closely as I could several times. Then I set the player to output bitstream, and listened with great expectation. Hard as I tried, I could hardly hear the slightest difference between them. I posted on AVF that "the difference was so small that I doubt I could tell the difference reliably". This was hugely disappointing and embarrassing, having firmly planted myself in the "processor decoding is better" camp. However, I owned up to the fact that I was wrong all along, or else I had cloth ears. After covering myself in shame (you can see this was a big deal to me) I went back to the lounge and looked at the Bluray case again. I hadn't realised that the BD soundtrack wasn't lossless compressed Dolby TrueHD or DTS-MA after all, but was in fact an LPCM soundtrack. Therefore the player had been outputting LPCM in both cases, so the audio replay architecture and hence the sound quality would have been the same. But I didn't figure this out until afterwards. During the comparison I thought I had been listening to two things that should have been technically and audibly different, so expectation bias was running riot. I knew what I was going to hear beforehand, but I didn't. Subsequently I played a different disc with a TrueHD soundtrack, and processor decoding sounded better after all, and I was happy again. The point is that my comparison was not compromised by being sighted or biased, and where there was in fact no difference at all, that was what I heard. I can't speak for everyone else, but I think I did prove to myself that I don't imagine what I hear. Not everyone gets this, but my hopes are up with an ASR audience.
(The player was a Denon 3800 and the processor was an Onkyo SC886, and other equipment combinations may have given a different result.)
Nic
Price list for new Onkyo PR-SC886
Right, some impressions. There's a great deal to say, and I won't be able to do it all at once. I've had the golden opportunity to answer a lot of questions, many of which relate to the Denon DVD 3800BD. For the purpose of this thread, though, I'll just consider it as a good HD MC audio...www.avforums.com
You are comparing a receiver vs a processor!
Not at all a lot of people are looking for AV10 quality like the copper thick beams in something cheaper than a AV10. I personally will only and ever use a processor with XLRs. That is just me. Monolith HTP1 8k, tonewinner, whatever.
It would be nice to see a few more players in the mid price AV pre/pro line. Manufacturers are now learning there is some marketing value in providing great measuring performance products and things have moved forward sugnificantly over the last five years.
I tip my hat to Marantz for the operation of the 2 pre/pros I've owned (7701 & 7703). What they've lacked in measured performance they almost made up for in bug-free, brick reliable operation. An area many others were pulling their hair out over in the same time frames. Good Job Marantz.
Interesting yes, but over the years when following the market of their AV products, the bugs, and their customer service, I was thrilled I had stuck with Marantz. It would take some serious changes there over time for me to consider one of their AV/s offerings. OTOH my Emo DC-1 DAC, Head Amp, & minimal preamp, has provided 100% reliable and top sonic performance for close to 10 years now. They do know how to get it done when they want to.
A point of difference and a point of similarity.
Perhaps Primare could become a competing manufacturer. I'm skeptic, though, as they seem to be taking forever to release their AVP version of their latest AVR.
Agree
That's your experience I guess.
Newman. Thanks for the primer (I read your link).There are so many issues with your first sentence... and with your second sentence TBH.
Just for starters, that number (64%) is for headphones, not speakers. But even if we were discussing headphones, that statement would be an incredibly inappropriate misuse of the number. I have previously deconstructed it, and reconstructed a correct interpretation of the data, here.
You really should try to 'unremember' that statement, and your interpretation, and never repeat it!
You were spot on about bass lovers NOT being considered to prefer the Harman Curve. Your statement that read "And even in the bass it’s the same curve" resonated with me. I compared the +3dB Harman Curve to the +6dB (by a click of a button) using Dirac. My ears preferred the +6dB setting. I was invited to be one of 6 dealers who are on their "dealer board." As in, what do dealers want (by way of the consumers want). They picked a group that represented different channels. In those meetings, they picked larger custom dealers, a BB rep, I cater to very technical customer base and I have a high volume, and there was a major online retailer present as well.
Regarding the loudspeaker curve, please see this discussion regarding the significant variance in the data that was averaged.
www.audiosciencereview.com
Brands have learned that it's really easy to lose $$ on prepros. It's almost automatic to assume it's going to happen. The list of former prepro vendors is endless. The ones that are still standing often rebrand another source. I have a good idea of sales volumes. I see serial numbers. I've been to Marantz in Japan, Emotiva in TN, I've been in Peter Lyngdorf's home in Denmark, etc. Brands make prepros to sell matching amps. They often lose $ on the prepro. Assume they do!
Hopefully you are just as pleased with the recent breach and loss of customer specific personal data.
Agreed. I bought a used 8805 and although it was tested before Amir became more accepting of lower measurements and was good. My personal experience is that it was GREAT! Dead reliable, ZERO glitches like my XMC-1, and sounded very clean paired with a Monolith 8250x for a 5.2.2 Atmos system. Now you can get a used 8805a for $2000. How many non-enthusiasts are A/B Dirac with Audessey or worried about DLBC for subs they don't want seen in a living room? But I am also the used car guy and love scooping up peoples used trucks cause it's not the latest/greatest. (Looking at you Toyota Tundra guys that went twin-turbo over massive displacement!)
