These are an insult to the target market.
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Klipsch Heresy IV Speaker Review
- Thread starter hardisj
- Start date
Fantastic review, as always Erin!
Another speaker to avoid.
See how much money you're saving us?
Another speaker to avoid.
See how much money you're saving us?
Chris A
Active Member
You have posted the impedance magnitude and phase, but not the other half of the loudspeaker's transfer function: the loudspeaker's phase response. The first derivative of phase (group delay), including minimum phase and excess group delay curves, I've found are pretty critical to how the loudspeaker sounds, especially perceived bass response.
I'll kick in a few bucks to your cause if you can make those two measurements an integral part of your loudspeaker measurements.
Chris
I'll kick in a few bucks to your cause if you can make those two measurements an integral part of your loudspeaker measurements.
Chris
Speaker-Inquisitor
Member
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2019
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- 119
To be honest: the result is as expected. Cheap drivers, cheap crossover in a ****** enclosure - the essence of Klipsch since 1946.
Amazing review @hardisj.
To those of you thinking YouTubers get paid for reviews by the big companies as some big conspiracy... Nah. You could argue about the subconscious influence of getting to test gear early, access, travel, etc. And maybe it's happened to some degree before with small reviewers (MSI recently had a scandal over that). But the idea that major reviewers regularly get big lumps of cash as a lot of people seem to believe? That would be immensely stupid for both the reviewer and the company.
Most importantly, thinking reviewers get paid for good reviews obscures the real problem, and the entire point of the double-blind research: We have a remarkable ability to trick ourselves into thinking a product is better than it is. Neither reviewers or buyers are immune to it, and only objective data helps us reframe that perspective.
Of course, one would hope we reviewers would be better at telling the good and bad apart, but at least one study suggests that reviewers might actually be worse than other listeners :
My theory for this is that it's easy for reviewers to focus on little things they hear in the music with bad speakers because a speaker sounds different rather than better. I absolutely did this before I started paying attention to measurements as much as my own listening impressions. "Sure, this speaker may sound harsh to some listeners, but I can hear details I never heard before!" Combine that with expectation bias -- this speaker costs a ton, it's from a reputable company, and people like it, so it must be good -- and hope for accurate, widely representative judgements dwindles further.
You can find just as many buyers who feel super strong feelings about a bad speaker, even after comparing against objectively better speakers. It even happens on ASR sometimes! The difference is we pay more attention to the value of measurements and can acknowledge when our preferences don't line up with objective predictions.
To those of you thinking YouTubers get paid for reviews by the big companies as some big conspiracy... Nah. You could argue about the subconscious influence of getting to test gear early, access, travel, etc. And maybe it's happened to some degree before with small reviewers (MSI recently had a scandal over that). But the idea that major reviewers regularly get big lumps of cash as a lot of people seem to believe? That would be immensely stupid for both the reviewer and the company.
Most importantly, thinking reviewers get paid for good reviews obscures the real problem, and the entire point of the double-blind research: We have a remarkable ability to trick ourselves into thinking a product is better than it is. Neither reviewers or buyers are immune to it, and only objective data helps us reframe that perspective.
Of course, one would hope we reviewers would be better at telling the good and bad apart, but at least one study suggests that reviewers might actually be worse than other listeners
:My theory for this is that it's easy for reviewers to focus on little things they hear in the music with bad speakers because a speaker sounds different rather than better. I absolutely did this before I started paying attention to measurements as much as my own listening impressions. "Sure, this speaker may sound harsh to some listeners, but I can hear details I never heard before!" Combine that with expectation bias -- this speaker costs a ton, it's from a reputable company, and people like it, so it must be good -- and hope for accurate, widely representative judgements dwindles further.
You can find just as many buyers who feel super strong feelings about a bad speaker, even after comparing against objectively better speakers. It even happens on ASR sometimes! The difference is we pay more attention to the value of measurements and can acknowledge when our preferences don't line up with objective predictions.
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Crites speakers or vintage Klipsch speakers better align with my tastes. Not to say I would not get a pair of these if they popped up cheap on craigslist.
I would love to see
Crites Cornscalla D
Tekton... whatever
While on the topic of speakers to run my tube amp that cost thousands and sounds and performs below my Loxjie A30 for the most part.
I would love to see
Crites Cornscalla D
Tekton... whatever
While on the topic of speakers to run my tube amp that cost thousands and sounds and performs below my Loxjie A30 for the most part.
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Chris A
Active Member
Actually, the Heresy was first marketed in 1957. It was Paul Klipsch's first attempt to create a fill center channel between two widely spaced (stereo) Khorns. Stereo recordings were just hitting the scene about that time. He later created the Cornwall (1959) and then the La Scala (1963) for that same purpose.
Chris
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
Grandpa called from the 1950s and he wants his gramophone speakers back.
mikewxyz
Member
@hardisj: Very thorough review. I still have my Heresy I’s from back in the day although my primary speakers are these Italian jobs (SF). I find the SF to be more accurate/ realistic sounding on vocals. For some recording artists, that’s not a good thing. The Klipsch can rescue these less than virtuoso artists by adding some warmth.
I think the people that buy Klipsch speakers know exactly what they are getting and like that sound.
My in room measurements of the Heresy’s from my listening position differ a little from yours although I would agree with a lot of what you describe.
I think the people that buy Klipsch speakers know exactly what they are getting and like that sound.
My in room measurements of the Heresy’s from my listening position differ a little from yours although I would agree with a lot of what you describe.
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dougi
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Even worse in Oz considering the exchange rate. A$8000, A$9500 for the Forte iiis. Luckily the measurements of both dissuade me from considering them. On the retro kick JBL100 classics are A$8500 here and Wharfedale Heritage Linton $3100 with stands. Guess which I bought!I was quite shocked when I looked up the price of them in the UK, £3,500.00. Judging by the fit and finish I was expecting them to be less than half that.
Edited: Wouldn't it be better to say "You have posted the impedance magnitude and phase. But for the loudspeaker's transfer function, you have only posted the frequency response magnitude, but not the other half, the phase response?"
How did you determine that these metrics are critical to how a loudspeaker sounds?
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A particular YouTube review who has tens of thousands of views per video (I won't mention his name or link him here because I don't want to give him the business) literally said this about the Heresy IV:
Probably corner loading and loads or room gain from an untreated room. A "well placed" mode can boost bass by more than 15db.
Also, if the music or the content he listens to only goes down to 30hz, that may also be a reason as the port does produce output at 30hz.
dougi
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I would also like to know. I'm sure there must be research somewhere. I am enjoying the bass of my Wharfedale Lintons more with no sub than I did my Proac D2s with a servo sub, despite good eq and attempted integration. There must be something to it.
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
It's not the exchange rate. It's the importer/distributors and the retailers. Australians have been ripped off for generations with high fidelity gear prices. It was cheaper to directly import retail priced gear from the US/Japan/UK and pay all the customs/duty/sales tax in the 70s and 80s than get it direct from the manufacturers distributors.
Nothing has changed and those older distributors still in business are arguably the worst they have ever been. They take Australians for fools.
I could get parts from the UK/US for three to four times less than from the Australian distributors and without a typical 8-12wk delay.
I bet you could land a pair of Lintons with stands here in Aus from Singapore or Hong Kong way cheaper than going through the local distributors AV Revolution. Remember, they are made in China anyway.
They are utterly hopeless and don't return emails or respond to technical enquiries about the products they peddle. I had instant responses from the UK, but sadly, they seem to have gone off the air too (maybe covid).
Part of an email back in August 2020:
After seeing the measurements for the newest Klipschorn, AK6 in Stereophile, this looks good. The phase anomalies are greatly reduced in this model.
The resonance around 500 Hz is unexpected. The earlier models were all acoustic suspension. Would love to see one of them tested. This Heresy IV is supposed to have deeper bass. Looks like all need a sub. Or two.
The 1KHZ peak is there for a reason. The listed efficiency is at 1KHZ on many models. Makes it closer to spec.
BTW, fantastic review.
The resonance around 500 Hz is unexpected. The earlier models were all acoustic suspension. Would love to see one of them tested. This Heresy IV is supposed to have deeper bass. Looks like all need a sub. Or two.
The 1KHZ peak is there for a reason. The listed efficiency is at 1KHZ on many models. Makes it closer to spec.
BTW, fantastic review.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #59
ha! Pretty much! I made this a couple weekends ago to demonstrate what I do to test speakers. It just happened to be while testing the ground plane portion of this speaker. It shows some of what I have to do to test and why it takes so long.
Yes, these are like a smaller version of what I built for my dorm room when I was starting as a loudspeaker engineer (117 dB from an NAD 3020!) The dispersion is actually better than I expected, the rest, unfortunately, not much evolved.
- The "99 dB" sensitivity a flat out lie as expected.
- Is the port just raw and unterminated inside?
- I cannot believe they don't even smoothen the horns to a circular opening! OMG they just stick the round drivers into a square hole! These speakers are brand new versions?!?!? Because I don't see the wacky bumps along the inside edges of the horn walls.
- Two horns almost the same size? It's 2020 people, you can cover that range with ONE horn by now.
- 2 mm Xmax...yeah I designed a subwoofer like that once, I inherited the half-done project, due to cost it was too late to change the coil, those were like $80 retail. How much are these Heresy? Oh yeah, THREE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS, good grief.
- The peak, oh the peak, perpetuating why many people don't like horns.
I like Klipsch and I like LOUDspeakers-from my dorm we would have sound wars with the fraternity 1/2 mile away. But horns have evolved tremendously since 1946, and Klipsch should know better by now. More frustratingly, their chief engineer DOES know better.
P.S. Great and incredibly thorough review! One question: you measured on the tweeter axis-actually at 1 meter?
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