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Kenwood L-05M Vintage Amplifier Review

Rate this amplifier:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 6 3.0%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 28 13.9%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 124 61.7%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 43 21.4%

  • Total voters
    201

Ken Tajalli

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I imagine there are tens of thousands of peeps or more that would be interested in the test results of vintage Quad amps. Very interesting gear with a history.
If memory serves, they sounded soft and lazy.
Perhaps something to do with diminished dynamic headroom or maybe even high output impedance.
I never liked them.
But interested? I am.
I am also interested in measurements of classic Meridian poweramps. There has been none that I could find on ASR.
 

sergeauckland

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If memory serves, they sounded soft and lazy.
Perhaps something to do with diminished dynamic headroom or maybe even high output impedance.
I never liked them.
But interested? I am.
I am also interested in measurements of classic Meridian poweramps. There has been none that I could find on ASR.
The 'Pipe and slippers' reputation of Quad amplifiers was just like Naim's reputation for PRAT, total nonsense. Quad's amplifiers going back to the 303 had sufficiently low output impedance as not to matter, and as for 'dynamic headroom' the answer to that is don't clip the amplifier! If you're getting close to clipping, where dynamic headroom matters, you need a bigger amp!

As to Meridian power amps, much the same as anyone else's power amps of the era. Totally transparent within their power and load limits.

S.
 

Ken Tajalli

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The 'Pipe and slippers' reputation of Quad amplifiers was just like Naim's reputation for PRAT, total nonsense. Quad's amplifiers going back to the 303 had sufficiently low output impedance as not to matter, and as for 'dynamic headroom' the answer to that is don't clip the amplifier! If you're getting close to clipping, where dynamic headroom matters, you need a bigger amp!
I was just guessing, never measured one.
But soft sounding, was my own experience, if they had any reputation of any kind, this is the first time I am hearing it.
I was in the market years ago, and auditioned the 303 and the 405 with various speakers, they did sound soft and un-dynamic. I finally went for a Meridian 103D at the time. Incidentally, the Meridian 103 also suffered from lazy-sounding (at any listening level), but not the 103D. The D version had two PSUs, one for each channel. Hence, my guess as to the cause of Quad's behaviour.
BTW, driving SARA Isobariks was beyond 103D's capability! the bass became a mush with the Meridians, but even the smaller Naims sounded mush better.
There was some truth to those reputations, now that you have mentioned them.
As to Meridian power amps, much the same as anyone else's power amps of the era. Totally transparent within their power and load limits.
Yet there have been no ASR type measurements of them that I could find.
It would be nice if someone could send one in and Amir be kind enough to measure it.
 

sergeauckland

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I was just guessing, never measured one.
But soft sounding, was my own experience, if they had any reputation of any kind, this is the first time I am hearing it.
I was in the market years ago, and auditioned the 303 and the 405 with various speakers, they did sound soft and un-dynamic. I finally went for a Meridian 103D at the time. Incidentally, the Meridian 103 also suffered from lazy-sounding (at any listening level), but not the 103D. The D version had two PSUs, one for each channel. Hence, my guess as to the cause of Quad's behaviour.
BTW, driving SARA Isobariks was beyond 103D's capability! the bass became a mush with the Meridians, but even the smaller Naims sounded mush better.
There was some truth to those reputations, now that you have mentioned them.

Yet there have been no ASR type measurements of them that I could find.
It would be nice if someone could send one in and Amir be kind enough to measure it.
I've measured both Quad and Meridian amplifiers, albeit with conventional analogue equipment, not Audio Precision. Both the Quads and Meridians had some limitations of current delivery although both were capable of driving 4 ohms, but not much below that. The Meridian 103 circuit was used in Meridian's active 'speakers driving 4 ohms, but as they were driving the voice coils directly, not through a passive crossover, the impedance seen by the amps was close to 4 ohms resistive. I recall Saras dropped below 4 ohms so neither Quads nor Meridians would be ideal. Naim amps had better current delivery, in part because they didn't have much in the way of overcurrent protection (or unconditional stability). Hence the importance of operating amplifiers within their design capabilities.

S.
 

anmpr1

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Whoever had worked on them did not used equivalent replacement parts. They had also put inferior driver transistors in there.

Many gravitate to vintage, however for me the takeaway from this review is not that the reconstructed amp performs well, but rather anything this old will likely come with problems. The questionable part of the equation is: 1) If you can't fix it yourself, who are you going to get who can, and is willing repair it to spec; 2) are equivalent replacement parts available; 3) if those criteria are satisfied, how much is it going to cost to bring it up to spec?

Folks with the knowledge, ability, and willingness to refurbish these items are becoming scarcer, each day, it seems. If you can find someone, you're certainly ahead of the game. In my experience, consider spending about as much as you bought the item for used, for repairs.

When buying the on-line marketplace, beware of becoming seduced by anything listed as 'rare'. In most cases it's not rare, and if it is, you probably don't want it, because there's a reason it's rare. :rolleyes:
 

fpitas

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Whoever had worked on them did not used equivalent replacement parts. They had also put inferior driver transistors in there.

Many gravitate to vintage, however for me the takeaway from this review is not that the reconstructed amp performs well, but rather anything this old will likely come with problems. The questionable part of the equation is: 1) If you can't fix it yourself, who are you going to get who can, and is willing repair it to spec; 2) are equivalent replacement parts available; 3) if those criteria are satisfied, how much is it going to cost to bring it up to spec?

Folks with the knowledge, ability, and willingness to refurbish these items are becoming scarcer, each day, it seems. If you can find someone, you're certainly ahead of the game. In my experience, consider spending about as much as you bought the item for used, for repairs.

When buying the on-line marketplace, beware of becoming seduced by anything listed as 'rare'. In most cases it's not rare, and if it is, you probably don't want it, because there's a reason it's rare. :rolleyes:
And people should be aware that "flippers" buy broken vintage stuff, and "repair" it just enough to sell. Often the item is complete shambles, with improper parts and terrible workmanship.
 

Labjr

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I've found that sometimes vintage hi-fi doesn't seem to sound as good as I remembered. I've serviced quite a few Japanese receivers. I usually listen to them for a couple days afterward. I'm almost always disappointed. I wonder why some of them are so valuable to collectors? And the FM sensitivity isn't very impressive. I have a 30 year old boom box that brings in FM stereo much better.
 

fpitas

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I've found that sometimes vintage hi-fi doesn't seem to sound as good as I remembered. I've serviced quite a few Japanese receivers. I usually listen to them for a couple days afterward. I'm almost always disappointed. I wonder why some of them are so valuable to collectors? And the FM sensitivity isn't very impressive. I have a 30 year old boom box that brings in FM stereo much better.
My conclusion is that some people are very susceptible to nostalgia.
 

Inner Space

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I've found that sometimes vintage hi-fi doesn't seem to sound as good as I remembered ... I wonder why some of them are so valuable to collectors?
My conclusion is that some people are very susceptible to nostalgia.
Yes - there's a huge secondary market in vintage things - cars especially, guitars, hi-fi - based entirely on boomers finally getting prosperous enough to chase the stuff they desperately wanted as young people. Some lusts never die.
 

Mnyb

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The only big flaw I see in some older amps is the manufacturers underestimation on how badly behaved some speakers are ? I kind of cat and mouse game ?
It should be the opposite speaker mfg should strive to make decent impedance and amp mfg should strive to drive any impedance and there is no more "macthing amps to speakers" . If they had understood that some speakers dips to 2 Ohms they probably made amps for it , likewise one can marvel at the incompetency at some speaker mfg for example Wilson who had some speaker with a very low impedance dip in the midrange ?
 

fpitas

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The only big flaw I see in some older amps is the manufacturers underestimation on how badly behaved some speakers are ? I kind of cat and mouse game ?
It should be the opposite speaker mfg should strive to make decent impedance and amp mfg should strive to drive any impedance and there is no more "macthing amps to speakers" . If they had understood that some speakers dips to 2 Ohms they probably made amps for it , likewise one can marvel at the incompetency at some speaker mfg for example Wilson who had some speaker with a very low impedance dip in the midrange ?
Passive crossovers can be a handful, but one would hope an experienced designer would deal with glaring problems. But here we sit criticizing, while Wilson is coining money. C'est la vie.
 

Mnyb

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Passive crossovers can be a handful, but one would hope an experienced designer would deal with glaring problems. But here we sit criticizing, while Wilson is coining money. C'est la vie.
Yes and they can claim that their speaker is so revealing and resolved that only beefy krell monoblocks would do ;) " no sh*t sherlock"
 

fpitas

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Yes and they can claim that their speaker is so revealing and resolved that only beefy krell monoblocks would do ;) " no sh*t sherlock"
It's a feature, not a flaw. Such decisions are far cheaper than engineering.
 

anmpr1

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Yes - there's a huge secondary market in vintage things - cars especially, guitars, hi-fi - based entirely on boomers finally getting prosperous enough to chase the stuff they desperately wanted as young people. Some lusts never die.

I think that's about right. But almost everyone has a desire to cherish their early years. We can write it off as simple nostalgia, but there is (usually) something psychologically comforting about our past experiences..., especially since we often tend to forget (and not dwell on) the horrible times.

Speaking of, here's my funny vintage gear anecdote (although I didn't think it was funny at the time): During my '80s divorce we had a 'split the assets' session (although it was more 70/30 in her favor--thanks Judge!). Sort of like a sports draft. When it came to the stereo, it wasn't 'winner take all' like it should have been, but ala carte. It was her turn first, so she took the Pioneer SX-1980 (considered one of a 'holy grail' of vintage Pioneer receivers); I was left with the JBL L100s (which I didn't mind--still have 'em).

Now, for this to make sense you have to understand that ex didn't even care about hi-fi. Wasn't her thing at all. And I would have easily given up the Wedgwood Jasperware in return. Yet, she did it to spite me. Revenge was her motive. It was, however, a good move on her part, because it took me longer to get over the SX than it took me to get over her.
 

Labjr

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Yes - there's a huge secondary market in vintage things - cars especially, guitars, hi-fi - based entirely on boomers finally getting prosperous enough to chase the stuff they desperately wanted as young people. Some lusts never die.
I also service music equipment. Vintage guitar amps and synthesizers etc. IMO, that's a bit different. Old tube amps have a certain flavor of distortion that sounds good for guitar. The prices are getting atsronomical but people are still paying it.
 

anmpr1

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I also service music equipment. Vintage guitar amps and synthesizers etc. IMO, that's a bit different. Old tube amps have a certain flavor of distortion that sounds good for guitar. The prices are getting atsronomical but people are still paying it.

But that 'flavor' can be copied by SS, to the point that it's impossible for people to really tell a difference. I think Josh Scott's thing with the Kemper shows that.

 

BDWoody

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When it came to the stereo, it wasn't 'winner take all' like it should have been, but ala carte. It was her turn first, so she took the Pioneer SX-1980 (considered one of a 'holy grail' of vintage Pioneer receivers);

@Sal1950 , am I remembering correctly that you also suffered through a similar experience?
 

Timcognito

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I've found that sometimes vintage hi-fi doesn't seem to sound as good as I remembered. I've serviced quite a few Japanese receivers. I usually listen to them for a couple days afterward. I'm almost always disappointed. I wonder why some of them are so valuable to collectors? And the FM sensitivity isn't very impressive. I have a 30 year old boom box that brings in FM stereo much better.
I was right with you until the FM part. FM is near dead except for car radios.
 

Oldasdrt

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Nice Amp and review, I sure wish I had my Circa 90' VSX D1S 2 For Review
They just don't make stuff like they used too, but we all know that
Thanks for the great review
 
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