KEF R3 meta Measurements

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

i'm not sure thats KEF R7, if you check the graph, its written KEF R750. KEF 7 has less distortion in the bass. I think they mean, KEF Q750, which has higher distortion in the bass

Its the r7, even the reference 3 have the distortion like that in the sub bass region at 100dB.
You need the reference 5 or R11.

 

[dogmamann]

i'm not sure thats KEF R7, if you check the graph, its written KEF R750. KEF 7 has less distortion in the bass. I think they mean, KEF Q750, which has higher distortion in the bass

R750 is r7. That’s a mistake from the magazine. I took the screenshot from r7 review

 

[JRS]

The bolded. The horizontal polar is collapsing and is therefore poor. There's no overall uniformity here. It's the opposite.

A true uniform or constant directivity will look something like seen below

 

[dogmamann]

Nope

Yep

 

[dogmamann]

Its the r7, even the reference 3 have the distortion like that in the sub bass region at 100dB.
You need the reference 5 or R11.

Yes, but as a passive speaker r7s distortion isn’t audible unless it’s pushed to the limits like you meantioned earlier. But if you eq it, overall loudness without distortion takes a hit. But at low volumes it’s still a good choice for small rooms. Once you move them to a larger room, you might need subs. I really realized one advantage of r5 and r7 yesterday, when I demoed another speaker(unfortunately meta wasn’t on demo yet, both works good when sitting next to them. In a small room it has just enough bass avoiding boom and roll off isn’t as sharp so it feels very natural. A year back I overlooked them, and now suddenly they are appealing to me. !!

 

[JRS]

So maybe I am confused. Except for a true omni or a dipolar
pattern seen with an open baffle or panel speaker that as the wavelength shortens to something near the baffle width, physics dictates a 2 pi pattern.

From there some speakers such as the Philharmonic BMR series which deliberately make use of unusually wide dispersion drivers can hold onto something like a useful 120 degree dispersion while the use case here allows it to drip to a narrow pattern of something closer to half that. The key is that it maintains that angle up into the very high frequencies where reflections are of diminished importance (recognizing that a sense of "airiness" may be sacrificed to some extent). So maybe this is more a matter of semantics--I mean technically speaking you are absolutely correct.
It also means that in the critical midrange that excesdive variability does not create a headache aka listeners fatigue and as a secondary benefit allows for the use of PEQ w/o significant trade offs.

 

[JRS]

the output and distortion levels are Purifi tear so i don't see the need.

Hmmm. My reading in the subject is that the Purifi are without peer when it comes to extension and low distortion. I'm sure there is a second tier thats close: SB Sartori, Scan-Speak and Seas to name a few. Looking at the Putifi distortion specs vs those of the KEF below 100Hz for example...

 

[HarmonicTHD]

I know KEF does their drivers in house, but would have loved to see a Purifi 6.5 or "even" an SBA Satori or Scsn-Speak Revelator driver. Given what the BMR monitor can do in a similarly sized cabinet

Wondered the same. Other issue is the vent required. All the Purified designs I've seen go with a PR. This would include the one done here by Rick and group, Jeff B's Helios znd Troels version. Granted those are in smaller czbs bit IIRC from messing around with some sims a few years back when they first czmd available, providing enough area to vent the back wave properly called for something like an 18 inch length. But one wonders about the phenon Purifi 6.5 mids and a pair of small subs-- I suspect that would be a damn fine set up.

There is no free lunch. With a bigger driver you might have to make compromises when crossing over to the UniQ while keeping directivity smooth.

Personally I rather have it like they did it and add a sub to extent the low end. Plus a separate strategically placed sub(s) help to optimize the room modes. So no it is good as it is unless they would be able to achieve both, smooth crossover and deeper extension.

 

[Mnyb]

No, there is a foam ring that can be closed by a foam plug. You can also only insert the foam ring.

Nice looking forward to see this measured can they be restored to normal tuning or is various degrees of less bass ?
In all honesty if I buy kef R I would also buy some means of eq to room and taste . I’m just curious about them .
I would not expect any speakers to just perform thrown out on my floor
Just like you have to adjust colour and black levels etc on a video projector. I’m also expected to tune my speakers to my circumstances. I’m viewing a good speaker as a kind of “audio projector” you need to have system tuning tools to make the whole system sing .

 

[Descartes]

Hope Amir reviews them soon

 

[JRS]

There is no free lunch. With a bigger driver you might have to make compromises when crossing over to the UniQ while keeping directivity smooth.

Personally I rather have it like they did it and add a sub to extent the low end. Plus a separate strategically placed sub(s) help to optimize the room modes. So no it is good as it is unless they would be able to achieve both, smooth crossover and deeper extension.

I understand. The Purify is a 6.5 and has adequate bandwidth to mate with the uniq drivers. For me its a bit of a predicament. There are some interesting kits in the same price range. In particular, Jeff Bagby's magnum opus, the Helios, which uses a Beryllium tweeter with waveguide along with a 9" woofer (speaking of directivity issues) thats loaded with a 10 inch PR and sits in a close to R3 sized cabinet.
The ne plus ultras of 2 ways if you will. The kit calls for a translam cabinet that looks to be a PITA to build and work with, but man is this a tempting alternative. May be end game quality for me (that and a pair of modest SW's). Could also support a decent HT system given its ability to hit extreme outputs cleanly. But that cab is daunting. Anyway not to derail the thread except to say there are some mad drivers available to the DYI crowd.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

I understand. The Purify is a 6.5 and has adequate bandwidth to mate with the uniq drivers. For me its a bit of a predicament. There are some interesting kits in the same price range. In particular, Jeff Bagby's magnum opus, the Helios, which uses a Beryllium tweeter with waveguide along with a 9" woofer (speaking of directivity issues) thats loaded with a 10 inch PR and sits in a close to R3 sized cabinet.
The ne plus ultras of 2 ways if you will. The kit calls for a translam cabinet that looks to be a PITA to build and work with, but man is this a tempting alternative. May be end game quality for me (that and a pair of modest SW's). Could also support a decent HT system given its ability to hit extreme outputs cleanly. But that cab is daunting. Anyway not to derail the thread except to say there are some mad drivers available to the DYI crowd.

I would go for something what is quantified and measured. And there the KEFs are among the best, especially for that price (unless you want to go for Actives)

 

[regan]

I would go for something what is quantified and measured. And there the KEFs are among the best, especially for that price (unless you want to go for Actives)

Which actives would be better than R3 in that price range?

 

[mglobe]

Which actives would be better than R3 in that price range?

I’m not an active speaker guy, and I own a pair of R3’s that I love, but to be fair you would need to include the price of a good, fairly high-powered amp in the pricing of the R3’s.

 

[JRS]

I’m not an active speaker guy, and I own a pair of R3’s that I love, but to be fair you would need to include the price of a good, fairly high-powered amp in the pricing of the R3’s.

I'm not in industry, but I suspect the amp modules say 125W and 75 for the W and T could be priced economically. Might add a couple hundred bucks on their end, but as a DYI guy, good, well specced xo components can add up, especially air wound inductors. (So if one is into DYI once you have the 4 to 8 channels of amplification, building your own speakers can become a huge savings, provided one has access to a good table saw and router).

I suspect within ten years passive speakers will be in the minority just as ICE powered cars will give way to EV's.

Here are a few: https://www.whathifi.com/best-buys/best-active-speakers-floorstanders-desktop-budget-and-premium Genelec has a budget pair under 2K as well--8350 maybe?

 

[JRS]

I would go for something what is quantified and measured. And there the KEFs are among the best, especially for that price (unless you want to go for Actives)

No doubt that the KEFs are an excellent speaker, the Helios is a superlative speaker. There is a tendency, and I'm not saying you are one of those, to be dismissive of kit speakers. There is a many page thread that pit the Philharmonic BMR's (available as a kit for 1000USD) vs the R3's and while there is not a clear winner, the BMR clearly hold their own and stomped the R3's at a recent unblinded battle of the stand mounts. In fact they pretty much stomped all of the competition. Now those do have a retail outlet and so are not exactly typical of the kits, but guys like Jeff Bagby and Dennis Murphy to name a couple are scarcely amateurs. Theres a great deal of simulation software that was written by avid amateurs--some of which is now commercial. Now so far as I know none own a Klippel, but many exceptional were designed and are being designed without one.

So sure KEF, B&W, Harmon Group have the tools at their disposal to make high value speakers, but remember all but the cost no object are the product of many compromises that the DYI crowd are not subject to--say choosing to use air wound vs ferrite core inductors, spending $50 dollars more for a woofer, adding overkill bracing, using automotive finishes, and so forth. Having active speakers makes the development so much faster than the days of yore (pre-SPICE must have been a bitch) as xo's can be changed on the fly and otherwise mismatched drivers made to work seamlessly. It's a very cool era for DYI--great kits, unbelievably good drivers, powerful, often free software and the internet makes for a vastly different space than the old days.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

No doubt that the KEFs are an excellent speaker, the Helios is a superlative speaker. There is a tendency, and I'm not saying you are one of those, to be dismissive of kit speakers. There is a many page thread that pit the Philharmonic BMR's (available as a kit for 1000USD) vs the R3's and while there is not a clear winner, the BMR clearly hold their own and stomped the R3's at a recent unblinded battle of the stand mounts. In fact they pretty much stomped all of the competition. Now those do have a retail outlet and so are not exactly typical of the kits, but guys like Jeff Bagby and Dennis Murphy to name a couple are scarcely amateurs. Theres a great deal of simulation software that was written by avid amateurs--some of which is now commercial. Now so far as I know none own a Klippel, but many exceptional were designed and are being designed without one.

So sure KEF, B&W, Harmon Group have the tools at their disposal to make high value speakers, but remember all but the cost no object are the product of many compromises that the DYI crowd are not subject to--say choosing to use air wound vs ferrite core inductors, spending $50 dollars more for a woofer, adding overkill bracing, using automotive finishes, and so forth. Having active speakers makes the development so much faster than the days of yore (pre-SPICE must have been a bitch) as xo's can be changed on the fly and otherwise mismatched drivers made to work seamlessly. It's a very cool era for DYI--great kits, unbelievably good drivers, powerful, often free software and the internet makes for a vastly different space than the old days.

No not dismissing kit gear at all. I have “kit” amps, but they are measured to the last detail. Just how I like it, others might have other preferences. As always there is good (eg Hypex, Purify) and bad kit gear (eg the GR speakers). I guess if one is interested, one can always build the kit speakers and send to to Armir. But we are getting a bit OT.

 

[bodhi]

No doubt that the KEFs are an excellent speaker, the Helios is a superlative speaker. There is a tendency, and I'm not saying you are one of those, to be dismissive of kit speakers. There is a many page thread that pit the Philharmonic BMR's (available as a kit for 1000USD) vs the R3's and while there is not a clear winner, the BMR clearly hold their own and stomped the R3's at a recent unblinded battle of the stand mounts.

Building your own speakers, even from a kit, is lightyears away from just buying them online and have them delivered to your front door. In most cases, even if you can actually build the speakers, the build quality is such that vast majority of DIY speakers I have seen honestly look like ass. And to get even there you have to spend tens of hours of your own time to get to that point: if you are not into speaker building as a hobby as in you don't much enjoy it, then that's just foolish, you can probably just work overtime one or two weekends and make up the difference.

 

[neunoir]

Which actives would be better than R3 in that price range?

Neumann KH 150? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh-150-monitor-review.39922/

 

[Snix]

Thank you for the detailed measurements.

I have a pair of "normal" R3... and dang I love these speakers.
The mid is creamy while the treble doesn't make your ears bleed like typical KEF.
As for the bass, it's plenty for me but sure not for headbangers.

My only nitpicking is,,, I hope it's a 92dB speakers lol.