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KEF R3 Meta - My Experience

ZolaIII

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And the PEQ is: 1) 36.75 Hz, -8.4 gain, Q 4 2) 61.3 Hz, -17.3 gain, Q 3.31 3) 251 Hz, -2.1 gain, Q 9.5 and 4) 363 Hz, -6.2 gain, Q 7.7. Round Hz if WiiM doesn't support it, I already rounded enough the rest. Apply it on WiiM and do the from file measurements in REW (playing generated file from WiiM. It will be bright over 10 K but there won't be much in the signal there all that much anyway. Anyway give it a go.
 
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K-dub

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And the PEQ is: 1) 36.75 Hz, -8.4 gain, Q 4 2) 61.3 Hz, -17.3 gain, Q 3.31 3) 251 Hz, -2.1 gain, Q 9.5 and 4) 363 Hz, -6.2 gain, Q 7.7. Round Hz if WiiM doesn't support it, I already rounded enough the rest. Apply it on WiiM and do the from file measurements in REW (playing generated file from WiiM. It will be bright over 10 K but there won't be much in the signal there all that much anyway. Anyway give it a go.

All measurements entered, however the -17.3 gain was above the max -12 allowed

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ZolaIII

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Well try now putting the bass to +2 instead +4. Didn't count in that WiiM is limited to ±12 so we didn't fix the room mode entirely. Dial it down and adjust loudness to the 1 KHz cross on measurement (to be mid 70's dB) - in reed dB (REW) to from 86 and give it some listening.
 
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K-dub

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Well try now putting the bass to +2 instead +4. Didn't count in that WiiM is limited to ±12 so we didn't fix the room mode entirely. Dial it down and adjust loudness to the 1 KHz cross on measurement (to be mid 70's dB) - in reed dB (REW) to from 86 and give it some listening.

Below is the bass at +2. Not sure I understand the second part. are you wanting me to adjust the loudness knob in some way?
1705187854137.png
 
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K-dub

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Turn the volume down on Yamaha for some 7 dB and adjust loudness knob to - 10 and play something you like.
Turn the volume down on Yamaha for some 7 dB and adjust loudness knob to - 10 and play something you like.
10-4! Below is with loudness turned down to get the mid 70db at 1khz. I will do some listening and report back. Really appreciate your time!!

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Steve Dallas

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Here is a handy target curve you can overlay with your measurements (use the All SPL button). This should sound good to most people.
 

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ZolaIII

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10-4! Below is with loudness turned down to get the mid 70db at 1khz. I will do some listening and report back. Really appreciate your time!!

View attachment 341776
Still 2~3 dB less loud and after listening compare it to initial measurements to see how much progress whose done. Congratulations you did your first PEQ and learned how to adjust loudness. If there whose more PEQ's and more versatile DSP including FIR and all pass filter results would be considerably better, add crossover filters and sub's and you done it all (all mentioned DSP processing). Play with REW and watch and read guides and you will get a hand on it.
 
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K-dub

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Still 2~3 dB less loud and after listening compare it to initial measurements to see how much progress whose done. Congratulations you did your first PEQ and learned how to adjust loudness. If there whose more PEQ's and more versatile DSP including FIR and all pass filter results would be considerably better, add crossover filters and sub's and you done it all (all mentioned DSP processing). Play with REW and watch and read guides and you will get a hand on it.
Thanks again for all your help! Will spend the night listening. First few tracks in and most of the shoutiness and ugly sound is gone! a lot leaner sound now but I'm sure I can try and move the speakers closer to the wall to get some of that low end back - which I'm guessing would trigger another round of measurements and tweaks to the Yamaha and PEQ which will force me to learn. Eat this elephant one bite at a time.
 

ZolaIII

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Thanks again for all your help! Will spend the night listening. First few tracks in and most of the shoutiness and ugly sound is gone! a lot leaner sound now but I'm sure I can try and move the speakers closer to the wall to get some of that low end back - which I'm guessing would trigger another round of measurements and tweaks to the Yamaha and PEQ which will force me to learn. Eat this elephant one bite at a time.
Yup, I am also convinced that you can achieve better placement and better phase sum with it, bass ain't that much of a problem (as long as you don't exaggerate with SPL). Anyway it whose to show you how much improvement you can make with what you already have and minimal interest. Hopefully it will be enough to get you interested in it and who know maybe even start reading books about it and discuss it one day. Have fun and enjoy listening for now.
 

dmilller

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Can pass with only one sub on lower cross (60 Hz) but if you want attack then you go with cuple of sub's (2x or 4x) in 2.2 setup (and they do under 60 together on their own) on 120 Hz with plugged port's on R3 Metas.
Yes, and multiple subs is usually the best solution. Buying one expensive better sub is usually the worst choice.

I struggled with one $1200 sub for far too long. "But I paid $1200 and it has EQ. It should be good!". Nope.
 

ZolaIII

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Yes, and multiple subs is usually the best solution. Buying one expensive better sub is usually the worst choice.

I struggled with one $1200 sub for far too long. "But I paid $1200 and it has EQ. It should be good!". Nope.
I am more than fine with my 2x Wharfedale WH-D10 which I bought on discount. They are nothing special but it works and translate very good (after doing a lot of optimizations of course) and they costed half of what you paid.
Let's straight this up you don't need more sub's to even the phase (there are other ways which don't cost anything) you need them when you cut over 70~80 Hz as waves are shorter and three is separation so if you do it with just one you can pin point from where it comes. Preferably you model crossover to Butterwort (for keeping better peak ability at crossing point).
 

dmilller

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Back to the R3 Metas

Someone somewhere wrote that the better crossover point 60 or 120, and to plug the back port. Agree/disagree or other options?

Any special crossover parameters on miniDSP? I have the SHD. I haven't spent much time with the SHD except setting the crossover point and running DIrac.
 

ZolaIII

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Back to the R3 Metas

Someone somewhere wrote that the better crossover point 60 or 120, and to plug the back port. Agree/disagree or other options?

Any special crossover parameters on miniDSP? I have the SHD. I haven't spent much time with the SHD except setting the crossover point and running DIrac.
Meh it whose probably me. So yes and yes. It's really rule of the thumb. Don't make more problems than you want to deal with with numerous small gains along the way. You then can operate more direct (to the driver response) and have less indirect refractions to delth with eliminating the port and less internal one's from cabinet and driving them easy (excepting for tweater amplitude phase pass in this case). So it's 120 Hz to a room slope to the Butterwort model.
Model in REW and export to MiniDSP. It needs to be done with two sub's, you basically clone L, R to 3, 4 model each sub (3,4) and then cross mains (do their slopes and PK...) and that's it, you will have additional boost in low to sub bass +3 from 60 to 38~40 Hz (where it's all just one long wave). Then do full range PEQ to input banks. That's without Dirac and with little creative shaping.
 
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terryforsythe

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Back to the R3 Metas

Someone somewhere wrote that the better crossover point 60 or 120, and to plug the back port. Agree/disagree or other options?

Any special crossover parameters on miniDSP? I have the SHD. I haven't spent much time with the SHD except setting the crossover point and running DIrac.
I agree. I plugged the ports on my speakers, and I was able to get better phase alignment between the speakers and the subwoofer. This resulted in a smoother frequency response in the crossover region. I ended up crossing over at 100 Hz.

I sent pink noise to my speakers and subwoofer, and used REW to measure the frequency spectrum. In the SHD I added time delay to the speakers, and adjusted it until I measured maximum SPL at the crossover frequency, measuring at the listening position.

As another approach, you probably can measure the time delay from the speakers to the listening position by measuring an impulse response, and do the same with the subwoofers. You could take the difference and use that as an initial time delay setting for the speakers in the SHD.

My speakers are closer to the listening position than my subwoofer. If your subwoofers are closer to the listening position than the speakers, you may need to add time delay to them instead.
 
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