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KEF R3 Meta - My Experience

mglobe

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Maybe try moving the speakers a bit closer to the wall? KEF designs these to work with some bass enhancement from the room. You will likely need EQ/room correction to smooth out the response if you do that, but you should bet some more bass out of it.
 

nerdemoji

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I would not use EQ to balance the bass to the mid as this will put even more demand on the woofers which are already struggling.
Yeah, though this is starting to sound more like a room resonance problem than anything else.
 

dfuller

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Move the speakers closer to the wall. You need some boundary effect to get these to have decent headroom. In fact, I'd put them as close as you can deal with.
 
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K-dub

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Ok, apart from the high frequency peaks and dips the response you measured seems normal for this speaker. It is weak in the bass and the response slopes down towards the high frequencies, making it a midrange-focused speaker. This sounds great when you play intimate acoustic recordings but maybe these speakers are not the right ones for your music taste. Ever tried the Wharfedale Linton Heritage?
I have not, but the Linton Heritage and the Polk R700 was on my short list but went with the R3.
 

Steve Dallas

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Move the speakers closer to the wall. You need some boundary effect to get these to have decent headroom. In fact, I'd put them as close as you can deal with.
Moving them close to the front wall will lift the low bass at the expense of the mid bass as the SBIR frequency center moves up. But... He has a door in the way, so he can't really do that.

To correct the FR, he needs to pull the mids down and boost the volume, but we need to know if his SPL expectations are real before he does anything else.
 

terryforsythe

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adding a sub woofer is also a waste, you will have a big hole in the mid bass, most important in rock music.
This is true for most systems where a subwoofer is added without adequate control over crossover frequency, topology and slopes, and without variable time delay to get the speakers and subwoofer in phase at the crossover frequency. Also, crossing over ported speakers to a subwoofer can be problematic with regard to phasing issues.

However, using a good DSP unit and plugging the speaker ports can do wonders. It certainly did in my system, and there are not any holes in the mid bass. The only issues are room modes, as with any system in an untreated room. Dirac Live does help with that.
 

thegeton

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I have a pair of KEF R3 Metas and a pair of regular R3 non-Metas. None of my R3s are "struggling" to do anything. Both systems sound amazing and have excellent bass response at 80 dB avg and 85+ dB peak. No, I have no graphic measurements to share but I'm working on that.

System 1: Buckeye Purifi 1ET400A - KEF R3 Meta + SVS-SB1000 Pro
System 2: Buckeye NC502MP - KEF R3 (non-Meta) + Jamo S808 sub (WAF influenced component choice)

Note that the 2nd system has a cheap-ass Jamo sub with an 8" driver. Still sounds great.

I'm all about accurate measurements and components measuring well, but I would be careful speculating about how anything sounds if you haven't heard it personally.
 
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K-dub

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Moving them close to the front wall will lift the low bass at the expense of the mid bass as the SBIR frequency center moves up. But... He has a door in the way, so he can't really do that.

To correct the FR, he needs to pull the mids down and boost the volume, but we need to know if his SPL expectations are real before he does anything else.

I should clarify the dB levels I have been taking are simply off an app from my phone so they may be out to lunch. I did notice when I was using the DSP UMIK-1 mic and setting up REW pink noise to 77db (i believe) I was shocked how loud 77db was compared to listening to music and what my phone was telling me. I should of opened up my app at the same time. I will try and play a track at the max volume before the drivers bottom out and use the UMIK-1 mic to record SPL and report back.
 
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K-dub

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You have a chance to learn something and for free but you get to move your but. I am a lazy bug so I get you but still not enough not to do four lauzy PEQ's. It won't be smooth and silky but it would be nigh and day to what you are receiving now.
I have your instructions jotted down and will run the tests ASAP. Work long shifts so likely wont get to it until Saturday. Bear with me my friend.
 

olieb

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I have a pair of KEF R3 Metas and a pair of regular R3 non-Metas. None of my R3s are "struggling" to do anything.
I can only confirm this. My room is of similar size (a bit smaller) and I can not imagine to bottom anything out without risking my ears and the relations to the neighbors. The Fosi V3 is not breaking into sweat while listening to uncomfortable levels.
To me the FR looks weird too, as the R3 (let alone the meta version) should have a much smoother and flatter response even in a room with a somewhat ragged reflection signature in mid/highs. Bass (+lower mid) is always room dependent.
 

Thomas_A

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Sort of impossible room. Test to measure with speakers close to back wall - if better, change the door to swing outwards...
 

Chagall

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Can pass with only one sub on lower cross (60 Hz) but if you want attack then you go with cuple of sub's (2x or 4x) in 2.2 setup (and they do under 60 together on their own) on 120 Hz with plugged port's on R3 Metas.

Sorry, why are you recommending plugging the ports? Does it matter when the mains are XOed at 60-120Hz - whatever frequency makes the most sense depending on the measurement?
 

ZolaIII

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Sorry, why are you recommending plugging the ports? Does it matter when the mains are XOed at 60-120Hz - whatever frequency makes the most sense depending on the measurement?
It's a bit strange driver. It holds a lot (Fs) but as any driver of it's size if you want to stress it out you cut on peek driver response. Improving response under neath is room reverberation and port cuff related so you cut it and plug the port's to have nice slope (low pass) for the sub's and it will also pass better when pushed close to the wall. By it's length waves under 60 Hz will be united anyway but if you cross over max 80 Hz you will really want to go with sub per each chenel so you can't put a finger to where from bass originates and have little better planning in mid bass and more headroom in low and sub bass of course. R3 Metas like that can push a lot having punch in uper bass and lower mids so you gain DR there as well.
 

Platypus20

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I’m driving a pair of R3 Metas, bi-amped by 2 Benchmark AHB2s, LA4 pre-amp, DAC 1 and Cambridge CXC v2 transport, in a 12‘ x 14’ room with 8’ ceilings. They sound great. I listen to a lot of live cds, often poorly recorded, if harsh or boomy, I make a couple quick adjustments on the 6 band Schiit Lokius.

I’m not sure if I prefer the Kefs over the Acarian Alon IVs that have been my main system speakers for years, it may be close
 

Chagall

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It's a bit strange driver. It holds a lot (Fs) but as any driver of it's size if you want to stress it out you cut on peek driver response. Improving response under neath is room reverberation and port cuff related so you cut it and plug the port's to have nice slope (low pass) for the sub's and it will also pass better when pushed close to the wall. By it's length waves under 60 Hz will be united anyway but if you cross over max 80 Hz you will really want to go with sub per each chenel so you can't put a finger to where from bass originates and have little better planning in mid bass and more headroom in low and sub bass of course. R3 Metas like that can push a lot having punch in uper bass and lower mids so you gain DR there as well.

Thanks for the info. Will try it and do some measurments.

I have R3 non meta, 22 cm away from the wall and crossover at 110 Hz, one Dali sub. It's a bit high cross, but it gave me the best FR measurments (tried 80,90,100,110).

I would love one sub per channel, but no space unfortunately.

Edit: Also my Rotel amp is only 60W, so don't mind the high crossover.
 

ZolaIII

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Thanks for the info. Will try it and do some measurments.

I have R3 non meta, 22 cm away from the wall and crossover at 110 Hz, one Dali sub. It's a bit high cross, but it gave me the best FR measurments (tried 80,90,100,110).

I would love one sub per channel, but no space unfortunately.
Well you at least asked for concrete reason. Hopefully you will find place in the future for second sub. I am in a small room with less fancy mains and pair of 10" closed back sub's and it sounds good.
 
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K-dub

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Polish first 4 bumps in the bass starting with 115 Hz one which is a room mode.
As you are equipment limited we will use good old integrated as best as we can. So dig into your Yamaha and put balance L -1, tone controls bass +4 and treble +2 and re measure L+R and post it hire. And post mdat hire I will get it and calculate you those PEQ's and you will then apply them and measure again and eventually adjust them more depending how it translates.

OK - So I re-did all the measurements for a new baseline and then made the adjustments above - See below. I tried to attach the REW file but the forum wont allow that format. Looks like they measured much different from the last time - I have not changed a thing other then using a different laptop.

One thing to note - during the sweep I noticed a nasty sound in the left driver at the low end. Almost like you can hear the driver rubbing on something. Low and behold the left driver is the only driver i have ever heard bottom out around 85-90db.. wondering if there is something going on there.

I can send you both the REW file and the video of the driver sound if you let me know where to send it.

Left - Rebaseline

1705181721702.png


Right - Rebaseline

1705181747040.png


R+L Re-Baseline
1705181801315.png


R+L With balance left -1, Bass+4, Treble +2

1705181872803.png
 

ZolaIII

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You should try to adjust right speaker better if you can so that you have better phase and in line better L+R sum around 160~170 Hz, actually pretty much all I hoped for and even phase is out with tone controls. Zip compress the mdat and attach the archive.
 
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K-dub

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You should try to adjust right speaker better if you can so that you have better phase and in line better L+R sum around 160~170 Hz, actually pretty much all I hoped for and even phase is out with tone controls. Zip compress the mdat and attach the archive.
 

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  • ZolaIII REW Data.zip
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K-dub

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You should try to adjust right speaker better if you can so that you have better phase and in line better L+R sum around 160~170 Hz, actually pretty much all I hoped for and even phase is out with tone controls. Zip compress the mdat and attach the archive.
Also just to clarify - the balance L-1 = turn balance knob to the right adding re to the right speaker or turn it to the left?
 
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