KEF R3 meta Measurements

[uwotm8]

the comparison you posted is looking at the 'short port' version

Yes, and the fact it exists matters much.
But even with a long port it looks less weird than R3, more like closed box:

Let's wait the next generation and see if KEF enjoys people frustration or will try to make it more like "normal"
BTW their active speakers from LSX to LS60 are normal just out of the box:

If the whole idea is to make those audiophiles who buy passive speakers suffer, and put them into hamster wheel of changing amps and cables (speaker stands, cable stands, spikes and harmonizres) in search for bass... Well, that's just 10/10 epic trolling

 

[Alexx]

I tell you my experience.

I had Q300 - R300 and R3 the most significant difference was with the R3.

I have been tempted several times to get the R3 Meta, I have spent hours listening to the R3/R3Meta side by side with different amplifiers...

My decision was to keep the R3s (I went to the store with mine already back in the box convinced I was going to take the metas).

I didn't like the mid range of the Meta at all! brought too far forward, with classical music this "excess" could even be tolerable but on female voices for my tastes and ears it was too intrusive and with 1/4 volume (Rega Elicit amplifiers, and Naim Supernait) it bothered me.. ..where I found a slight improvement was in the "Tweeter" treble which seemed slightly softer.

I don't think this depends on the meta-ampere placed behind the tweeter (the R absorb about 92% and Meta 100%, only 8% cannot make this difference) I imagine it could be due to the modification they made on the Crossover this difference in the mid-range. ..

The bass is the same between the two models, if I didn't find the mid range "annoying" I was also willing to add another 1200 euros difference (giving back my R3) to get the Meta, but this tone on the mids is not good at all, Sin! they could limit themselves to making the Tweeter softer without making any other changes, even if this very small and marginal one probably would not have justified the release of a new model on the market at a much higher price...

It being understood that the small difference present on the Tweeter may also depend on the same modification made on the Crossover as on the midrange, and not on the Metamaterial.

It's a simple thought of mine......certainly those who like a "brighter" speaker in the mid range may also be worth the change, even if the difference in cost between the two models is unacceptable (in Italy the old R series put on promotion at 1190 euros...new Meta 2200 euros...).

Each listening was done without any measurement or instrument, there were 3 people and we all had the same sensations.
A greeting.

 

[exm]

I tell you my experience.

I had Q300 - R300 and R3 the most significant difference was with the R3.

I have been tempted several times to get the R3 Meta, I have spent hours listening to the R3/R3Meta side by side with different amplifiers...

My decision was to keep the R3s (I went to the store with mine already back in the box convinced I was going to take the metas).

I didn't like the mid range of the Meta at all! brought too far forward, with classical music this "excess" could even be tolerable but on female voices for my tastes and ears it was too intrusive and with 1/4 volume (Rega Elicit amplifiers, and Naim Supernait) it bothered me.. ..where I found a slight improvement was in the "Tweeter" treble which seemed slightly softer.

I don't think this depends on the meta-ampere placed behind the tweeter (the R absorb about 92% and Meta 100%, only 8% cannot make this difference) I imagine it could be due to the modification they made on the Crossover this difference in the mid-range. ..

The bass is the same between the two models, if I didn't find the mid range "annoying" I was also willing to add another 1200 euros difference (giving back my R3) to get the Meta, but this tone on the mids is not good at all, Sin! they could limit themselves to making the Tweeter softer without making any other changes, even if this very small and marginal one probably would not have justified the release of a new model on the market at a much higher price...

It being understood that the small difference present on the Tweeter may also depend on the same modification made on the Crossover as on the midrange, and not on the Metamaterial.

It's a simple thought of mine......certainly those who like a "brighter" speaker in the mid range may also be worth the change, even if the difference in cost between the two models is unacceptable (in Italy the old R series put on promotion at 1190 euros...new Meta 2200 euros...).

Each listening was done without any measurement or instrument, there were 3 people and we all had the same sensations.
A greeting.

If you have some money available, go find a non-Meta Reference 1 speaker. That will be an incredible upgrade.

 

[Alexx]

You are definitely right

The Reference series is really good, it's a shame it's priced out of your budget...

I would have found R1 refernece (not meta) Ex demo for 5000 euros.

Very interesting, I only have one doubt, at this price, is there anything better than the Kef Reference 3-way?
Thank you in advance.

 

[objectivecoder]

Hi!
I bought the KEF R3 Meta (Blue) during Christmas and I have really enjoyed it.
I know the science of break-in is really questionable, but subjectively I really did not enjoy them for two weeks. (Very lacking bass and harsh highs)
After that I think they have become better and better and now I absolutely love how they sound! (At least one of them, more later)
And the bass must have improved! It feels so much looser and deeper.

And I know, this is prob. just my ears getting used to their sound, but still. That was my experience.

(I've been in pro-audio for many years and have also been a producer where we recorded things with questionable everything only to to later see hifi people fantasise on how perfect our studio-env. must have been to build that sound..).

I did however want to share an experience on what happened with one of my speakers:
My son was sick. He had a glas of Orange Juice on the floor, next to the speaker, I came in a hurry and kicked that
glas so that the Juice went flying and hit the speaker. The grill was on but the Juice penetrated the holes in the grill and went STRAIGHT
into the tweeter.

The high-PH fluid was quickly wiped away as best as I could, but it had pulps. And I could see those trapped between the tweeter dome and the
small star-shaped plastic cover for the tweeter. I listened to them and they sounded fine... until a song with Piano, with strong 4-6k details came on.
Then the distortion became apparent. I tried most things: Blow gently into the tweeter (release pulp) and waited 4 weeks.
But the distortion is still apparent. If anyone has any other tips, please let me know.

However. I decided to replace the Uni-Q driver. And I really did not want to ship the thing back to the dealer.
It's half across the country. So I contacted KEF directly. But they sent me right back to the dealer.

As I said I have a long background in Audio and in Engineering so I told the dealer that I'm happy to replace the driver myself.
So now I've ordered a new Uni-Q driver. And this is one of the reasons I'm writing this. Two pieces of information that I could not find online and that I've so far have learned about this speaker:

1. The driver for mid/tweet on the R3 Meta is SP1814GA (Bronze color. I think the last two letters indicate color, AA is black for instance).
2. The Plastic ring around the Uni-Q driver is not easy to remove! I had to stick a flat metal tool (I tried with all plastic tools I have first) from the inside (Very close to the driver) and pull it towards me while trying to grab it from the outside with my nails to slowly remove it. It is however just friction-fitted and has no clips.
It did not leave any marks and all went well. But go slowly and gental. And try with a plastic tool first!
My replacement driver is arriving any day now and changing it after the ring is removed will be trivial. It's just two sets of cable with clips on there.

I'll let you know how it all went.

 

[Talisman]

Hi!
I bought the KEF R3 Meta (Blue) during Christmas and I have really enjoyed it.
I know the science of break-in is really questionable, but subjectively I really did not enjoy them for two weeks.
After that I think they have become better and better and now I absolutely love how they sound!

And I know, this is prob. just my ears getting used to their sound, but still. That was my experience.

(I've been in pro-audio for many years and have also been a producer where we recorded things with with questionable everything only to to later see hifi people fantasise on how perfect our studio-env. must have been to build that sound..).

I did however want to share an experience on what happened with one of my speakers:
My son was sick. He had a glas of Orange Juice on the floor, next to the speaker, I came in a hurry and kicked that
glas so that the Juice went flying and hit the speaker. The grill was on but the Juice penetrated the holes in the grill and went STRAIGHT
into the tweeter.

The high-PH fluid was quickly wiped away as best as I could, but it had pulps. And I could see those trapped between the tweeter dome and the
small start-shaped plastic cover for the tweeter. I listened to them and they sounded fine... until a song with Piano, with strong 4-6k details came on.
Then the distortion became apparent. I tried most things: Blow gently into the tweeter (release pulp) and waited 4 weeks.
But the distortion is still apparent. If anyone has any other tips, please let me know.

However. I decided to replace the Uni-Q driver. And I really did not want to ship the thing back to the dealer.
It's half across the country. So I contacted KEF directly. But they sent me right back to the dealer.

As I said I have a long background in Audio and in Engineering so I told the dealer that I'm happy to replace the driver myself.
So now I've ordered a new Uni-Q driver. And this is one of the reasons I'm writing this. Two pieces of information that I could not find online and that I've so far has learned about this speaker:

1. The driver for mid/tweet on the R3 Meta is SP1814GA (Bronze color. I think the last two letters indicate color, AA is black for instance).
2. The Plastic ring around the Uni-Q driver is not easy to remove! I had to stick a flat metal tool (I tried with all plastic tools I have first) from the inside (Very close to the driver) and pull it towards me while trying to grab it from the outside with my nails to slowly remove it. It is however just friction-fitted and has not clips.
It did not leave any marks and all went well. But go slowly and gental. And try with a plastic tool first!
My replacement driver is arriving any day now and changing it after the ring is removed will be trivial. It's just two sets of cable with clips on there.

I'll let you know how it all went.

I've read Stephen King horror novels that scared me less than this story

 

[objectivecoder]

@Talisman. I can scare you further: My dealer charged me 506 USD for a replacement driver.

One expensive glas of Orange juice..

 

[testp]

I've read Stephen King horror novels that scared me less than this story

great, now i can't go to sleep..

 

[Alexx]

550 dollars for a medium-high price seems madness, even if prices are now out of control and this does not make the market easier.

After several direct tests with R3 and R3Meta I still haven't been able to decide and understand if it's worth the change...

R3 has a warmer midrange, but a more annoying tweeter and is present in some songs.

R3 Meta has a stronger mid which I don't like very much (too present) while I find the tweeter more balanced and not annoying.

I fear that the right speaker for my tastes would be a mix between R3 and R3Meta, which unfortunately Kef failed to do, that is, they made an excellent product, but which differs from my musical tastes.

Spending 2200 euros to have to accept a compromise seems too much to me even if in HiFi you often always have to compromise...

I was considering the Mofi 8 (Andrew Jones) but I can't listen to them.

Rega Elicit MK5 amplifier.

@objectivecoder: Wow, I'm sorry about what happened, unfortunately these things happen, the idea would be to put them on stands, something like this happened to me once with a pair of infinities, my wife placed a bowl of pasta on a speaker left to rise!!! in the morning she was gone everywhere, woofer tweeter..... a disaster.

What speaker did you have before Kef? the fact that you have gotten used to it over time may depend on the running-in (questionable on medium-high frequencies) but also on the fact that you have gotten used to a more open and bright sound.
A thousand thanks.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I'm affraid to know how much the Blade One Meta coaxial driver costs lol

 

[Mnyb]

EQ anyone ? small preference things can be fixed , no speaker will perform perfectly in your home without some adjustments

 

[Beave]

C'mon, nobody is gonna believe the story that you accidentally kicked a glass of pulpy orange juice through the grille and onto the tweeter.

We all know the real story: Your son thought the tweeter phase plug was an orange squeezer (a device used to make fresh orange juice), so he pressed an orange against it. Or was it YOU who did that?

 

[objectivecoder]

C'mon, nobody is gonna believe the story that you accidentally kicked a glass of pulpy orange juice through the grille and onto the tweeter.

We all know the real story: Your son thought the tweeter phase plug was an orange squeezer (a device used to make fresh orange juice), so he pressed an orange against it. Or was it YOU who did that?

It might sound unbelievable. But it was in fact what happened. To be fair: The speaker was not optimally placed at the time! haha
I attached a photo so you can see how the trajectory of the juice would end up there.

The position of that speaker has since been improved .

What speaker did you have before Kef? the fact that you have gotten used to it over time may depend on the running-in (questionable on medium-high frequencies) but also on the fact that you have gotten used to a more open and bright sound.
A thousand thanks.

I'm coming from the studio-world with really flat speakers originally. But my previous speakers have been a blend of both HiFi and studio: Genelec 8040.
The harchness in the highs are still a bit much in the KEF for me personally. I would have liked them to be a bit smoother there. It's especially to much detail for things like dirty rock. It works much better for electronic music tho. All personal preference ofc.

The best part of the speakers is the lower-mids to me. And that is an area I value highly and that studio speakers often do well.

 

[ehabheikal]

Is the r3 m audioably better than the ls50 meta?

 

[Evgeny Lebedev]

Hi there! Has anyone tried using M10v2 with KEF R3 Meta?

 

[prot]

Hi guys. Please help me decide with amp for r3:

Technics SU-GX70 or Yamaha R-N1000

I'm looking for not crazy loud levels but for quality. Mostly listen to Rock, Drum and Bass, Techno, IDM...

 

[ehabheikal]

Hi,
I measured the KEF R3 meta loudspeakers this time.

These speakers have just been released, but I was able to get a pre-order sample (a pair) from an audiophile in Korea.

View attachment 266010










Impedance

View attachment 266011View attachment 266012








Frequency response


View attachment 266013

I measure HF responses using a 5ms window gating.
Therefore, the crossover frequency of this speaker was located lower than I could measure, so I could not use the 'Merging Nearfield + Farfield' technique.


It has a similar LF roll-off to its predecessor.





View attachment 266014

Here's a comparison of 'ported vs sealed' responses.
(This was done with nearfiled measurements, with baffle step compensation applied).





Directivity



View attachment 266015View attachment 266016View attachment 266017View attachment 266018




Wow. That's really cool.

I'm noticing a huge improvement in the 15~20k compared to before.

On the outside, it looks like the exact same product as its predecessor, but the directivity definitely seems to be a step up.

While this may not be important to all users, I can't help but admire KEF's passion and skill in achieving performance improvements despite the seemingly identical design.

(Perhaps it's a fine-tuning of the lemon squeezer on tweeter?)




Beamwidth


View attachment 266019View attachment 266020


It looks as complete as anything you'll see in this price range.
(In South Korea, it's currently available for around $1,700 to $1,800).










Polar plot



View attachment 266021View attachment 266022



This loudspeaker shows almost perfectly smooth attenuation, not only in the front, but also in the sides and back.




Total Harmonic Distortion

I am representing THD relative data as CHD.
This is the percentage of each HD component based on the average SPL from 200 Hz to 10 kHz.

View attachment 266023View attachment 266024View attachment 266025View attachment 266026


You can hear a very clean response at 85dB SPL and even at 95dB SPL.
It's flawless.




Multitone test

View attachment 266027View attachment 266028

Multitone distortion of -40 to -50 dB were measured.









I tried removing the measurement signal below 80 Hz and measuring it.
This was done to see how much the effects of MD from the woofer's high displacement motion and ports could be reduced when used with a subwoofer.



View attachment 266029










And if anyone remembers, this product also had the "shadow flare" issue that was featured in Erin's Audio Corner.
So I measured how much the MD was changed by this as well.
(The effect on FR can be seen below).

View attachment 266030







MD for each SPL.


View attachment 266031View attachment 266032



Despite the increase in output, there is very little increase in Multitone Distortion.
This is a strong defense against distortion.




Compression test

View attachment 266033


This test was performed with Multitone.
It shows a compression of only 0.5 dB even at 96 dB SPL.
Very powerful performance.






Here's a look at compression testing from the other side.

These were performed at 0.1 m and 1 m, respectively, and measured with a sine sweep.



View attachment 266034View attachment 266035


We can see that the response of the woofer increased with the increase in SPL at 45Hz.
This means that the internal air pressure along the port did not remain linear.

In other words, above a certain sound pressure, the ports in this speaker lose a little bit of their effectiveness.

(All SPL values are based on output at 1kHz @1m)






Grill test

View attachment 266036


The grille is affected by a very high Q value.







Shadow flare

View attachment 266037


I measured the impact of Shadow flare, which we introduced in EAC.
(I don't own this loudspeaker, so I wasn't able to push the part very hard).

You can see that there is a dip centered around 1 kHz.
(Pressing in the Shadow flare will correct this).




View attachment 266038





Finally, the FR deviation comparison between the two samples.

View attachment 266039





A very personal thought.

KEF's precise directional control is truly amazing.

Its predecessor was good enough, but it's even better than I expected.


If I had to pick a downside...
The bass is weak.
Also, due to the compression at high SPL, I think it would be a bit too much for me to enjoy a movie without a subwoofer.

Of course, I was just nitpicking because it was so great.
(I envy the owner.)

Would this r3 meta be an audible upgrade to ls50 metas if i already use ls50m with dual subs and dirac?

 

[Descartes]

Would this r3 meta be an audible upgrade to ls50 metas if i already use ls50m with dual subs and dirac?

Yes

 

[dogmamann]

Would this r3 meta be an audible upgrade to ls50 metas if i already use ls50m with dual subs and dirac?

No

 

[ehabheikal]

Descartes and dogmamann you need to fight it out